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actions & protests | human & civil rights | police / legal a22: bush protest

Citizens demand accountability; Mayor defends brutality, hides in office

Alan Graf, Portland resident and Chair of the Portland Chapter of the National Lawyers Guild called a press conference at 8:45am on August 23rd at City Hall to talk about the police violence during the previous days Bush protest.

In his press release, he stated that he witnessed actions by the Portland Police that rose to the level of what he termed "atrocities against humanity" and reminded everyone that Chief Kroeker said that the buck stops with him. On that basis, he demanded that Kroeker resign and that Mayor Katz be part of developing true citizens' oversight and review of police conduct.

After Alan Graf spoke, a number of people came forward to tell their stories. One was Don Joughin, the father of the children who were pepper sprayed 2nd and Alder. He showed photos of his children crying, faces red and swollen. Don told how he and his family were in the back, away from any direct protest and how police surrounded everyone, and would not let people leave, at the same time that other police were ordering people to disperse.

It is clear that these sort of tactics are intentional. They instigate trouble, cause a 'situation' and then use it to attack people with impunity.

As the police readied for violent attack on peaceful citizens, the man went to the police line and asked if he and his children could cross the line and get out of harms way. He was refused. He asked someone else, and was refused again. At that point the police started pepper praying people. One officer sprayed the man's wife and children from just a couple feet away with no regard for their safety or for the fact that they were doing absolutely nothing but standing there.

This is a systemic problem of a near police state -- not a few overzealous or sadistic cops.

Another person spoke up as a witness to the children being pepper sprayed. Yet another person told of being shot with rubber bullets 7 times. He showed all the bruises on arms, legs, and torso. He was also hit with a stick. He was knocked to the ground, and shot while lying there, obviously a great menace to everyone present while lying there. These are just a few of the many senseless acts of brutality by police against peaceful demonstrators.



After speaking with the press outside City Hall, Alan Graf, many of the press, and the 60 or so people who attended the press conference went up to Mayor Katz's office to speak to her. The Mayor was in her office but declined to speak to the people there. She obviously does not care enough about babies and small children being pepper sprayed by police to come out and talk to the father of those children. This sort of callous disregard for the citizens of this city show she is just there to cater to big business. Shame on her for refusing to speak to the father of those children. Shame on her for siding with police violence. Shame on her for supporting an environment of police state oppression and violation of Constitutionally protected civil rights.



A copy of the press release was dropped at each of the commissioners offices, and a few more questions by the press taken. Not a single City Commissioner found it important enough to be there. The mayor was there, but could not be bothered to get off her ass and show some basic respect for injured citizens.

Mayor Katz is a disgrace. It is time for Portland to have a Mayor who cares about the people of the city. Time also for true citizen oversight of the police, because they are way out of control and have come to believe they are above the law.


Go get 'em guys! 24.Aug.2002 15:56

sorry i wasn't there

I love you. Don't stop standing up to the oppressors. Regardless of how you do it, just don't stop!

Interesting concept 24.Aug.2002 17:09

Cedric cedric@cs.pdx.edu

I was at the protest, and I didn't see a whole lot of violence, but the concepts I have seen before, where the police will rile people up so they have 'reason' to start clubbing us. My girlfriend who was there made a poignant comment: "It is interesting that we own the streets, we pay the taxes and these people's salaries, yet we have to be shot at to voice our first amendment rights." I find it dispicable that this is even an issue. We are guaranteed by the Consititution, something that the Police are supposed to Protect and Serve as well, to have peaceful protest, but every time we seem to excercise our First or Fourth, Sixth or otherwise, many 'government servants' crack down on the people exercising said rights.

YOU FOLKS ARE PATRIOTS 24.Aug.2002 17:34

Bob K nteujfk@aol.com

Hats off to the lot of you who bore the brunt! Thank you. Please keep after your city officials for accountability over the police, a full investigation,and keep the heat on that mayor of yours. Mayor won't change? You are right: work to change the mayor.
It should be pretty clear that these over reactions of police brutality are designed to get the message of "No dissent, no protest, or else" to the rest of we Americans. I for one hope we ALL get this message.
Then let's get 5, 10, 20,100 times as many of us out to the next BUSH appearances.
In the meantime we should all try to kep the heat on the corporate media to start reporting these demonstations accurately.
And those of you who read this indymedia and work in law enforcement, START TALKING TO YOUR CO WORKERS. WE WHO ARE PROTESTING ARE NOT THE ENEMY. JUST LOOK AT WHAT BUSH IS PLANNING TO DO TO YOUR FELLOW FEDERAL OFFICERS IN HIS UNION BUSTING HOMELAND DEPARTMENT. WAKE UP AND CHECK YOURSELVES! Do not do things now that you will forever regret for the rest of your lives. Nazi Storm Troopers and Prison Camp Guards blindly did things they regretted forevemore. THINK things through, THINK for yourselves before you become your own worse nightmares.
This is the time to be heros. Real heros do NOT pepper spray and beat the very civilians who pay them to protect them.

Thanks to the Fine People of Portland 24.Aug.2002 18:18

March on Him!

Thanks to the fine people of Portland for Speaking Out against the Nazi Agitator we currently have in Office. It only took a few thousand people demonstrating peacefully, and with the courage of their convictions, to Make the World Stand Up and Take Notice. These are not ordinary times, but if more people Take Action & Talk Truth to Power, the Media will have no choice but to listen and change the story.

um, you got that one part wrong 24.Aug.2002 18:34

mike p

i was the guy who was at the press conference and said i got shot 7 times and showed all of my bruises. i never said that i was knocked to the ground, i never said that they hit me with their batons, because none of that happened! they did kick me in the leg before they started shooting from about 3 or 4 feet away, however. they did push me back with their batons. sorry to tell you this (because i love indymedia and hate corporate media) but when the oregonian quoted me, they got it right.

i also said that what we were doing was no different than what martin luther king was doing during the civil rights movement. i was in locked arms with about 7 other people. we were simply refusing to move. for awhile they pushed us back about ten feet. finally we started shouting "hold your ground" and "courage" and the line stopped moving back. so then they kicked me in the leg. we still didn't move back. so then they shot and pepper sprayed us simultaneously.

the reason they declared a state of emergency and moved in was because several people were peacefully blocking the enterance to the ritzy bar/hotel on 6th whose name i'm blanking on. i was not one of those people, although i did support their action. blocking the hotel was nothing personal, it was exactly the same as when gandi and his group would purposefully target british owned businesses. the group was peacefully targeting a business that represents money and power. that's not a state of emergency. that's fucking civil disobedience.

I really need some information 24.Aug.2002 19:09

Yabits

I have been reading this site with keen interest. It's hard to believe that this kind of police over-reaction can happen in one our nation's most beautiful and progressive cities. What an outrage!

I really would like some information. Some of the conservatives I've been discussing this with say that the police action was somewhat justified because of the folks with spray paint cans who defaced buildings. My question is this: To what extent was this "defacing" going on? Can anyone out there tell me?

Now, I disagree entirely that a person tagging a building with spray paint warrants macing and firing rubber bullets at a crowd. But the AP reported this type of vandalism and I really want to know the extent of it. Thanks in advance for any and all information.

when i was there 24.Aug.2002 19:34

witness

I was at the protest for most of the day and while I was there I did not see a single instance of vandalism...That doesn't mean it didn't occur...I just didn't see it.

The police attack had nothing to do with vandalism. The order was given to move the barricade back a block and that is what led police to use any means necessary to enforce the movement order...at least thats how it seemed to me.

What the hell? 24.Aug.2002 19:47

Mr. Reason

Hahahaha! "Atrocities against humanity." I can't stop laughing. Oh yeah, this is right up there with Rwanda, Kosovo, and Hitler's Germany. As usual, you all have no sense of perspective. Give me a break!!!

People are starving to death in various places in the world, bombs are going off in others, and yet here in Portland, Oregon we have an "atrocity against humanity" that recently occurred because a few people got sprayed with pepper after they rushed police. I'm sure the people of war-torn Rwanda can sympathize with your situation. Or maybe some of the widows of Kosovo feel your pain.

First hand info 24.Aug.2002 19:48

portlander

The only "vandalism" was with chalk.

That's why some of the news from yesterday said that it "seemed to wash off" there was NO spraypaint.

People also did not throw objects at the cops. I was there at Taylor st.

Also, no one "Jumped on cars" except for when the cops DROVE INTO THE CROWD. there were two choices: go over or go under. I think they made good choices.

reply to Mr. Reason 24.Aug.2002 20:04

Social Abortion chowmeinlane@hotmail.com

Yes, we do have it better than others but without wants and needs our civilization would come to a hault and we would dwindle away. The want of freedom almost seems ingrained in human nature and all through-out history we have fought for it. Sure, those who moved from England to the U.S. had it better than those lying naked and starving to death in 3rd world countries. But they still wanted more. And I still want more. Using your logic, you should feel guilty for using a computer that was put together by those straving children and will be dumped there when you throw it out to let the toxic chemicals mutate all of those humans "lower" than us. I am proud for all of the activists that showed their support for their cause and wish I could have been there.

We must not stop there. Want to schedule some sort of meeting where we can discuss how to further our cause?
I can be reached at:  chowmeinlane@hotmail.com

realize, rebel, revolutionize,
laurel
mp3.com/damnit


To Mr Reason 24.Aug.2002 20:15

Mrs Reason

Mr. Reason you are correct. Many of these protestors live such sheltered lives that when they get fired from their job at "The Gap", they tell their parents that it was a "Crime Against Humanity" over a cup of Starbucks. Those of us who have experienced what it truly means to live in a wartorn country know better. This little scuffle with the police may be some huge event in their eyes but for those who come from Rwanda, it isn't even a blip on the radar.

Good editorial by Wm. Pitts 24.Aug.2002 20:18

me

There is a good editorial by Wm. River Pitts reguarding thursday's protest. Go to truthout.org
Right on Portland!

thanks mike for the correction 24.Aug.2002 20:48

PDX Dragon

was my mistake on the account you gave. someone at the press conference told me they were knocked down and i confused the two incidents. thanks for the clarification.

indymedia rules!

The Reason Family 24.Aug.2002 21:21

Lil' Insanity

Excuse me, Mr. Reason, for sweeping right past you and addressing your wife first. I hope you don't mind, in this day and age?

Mrs. Reason, I find it strange that you use the specific examples of the "Gap" and "Starbucks" in your mockery of the protesters. Is there a specific humor to these choices that I'm not getting, or are your sweeping generalizations that inaccurate? I don't know many protesters who would go anywhere near these places, much less work there. Corporate behemoths go hand in hand with the Bush regime, and even simple things like t-shirts and coffee smack of the Empire. Especially these things, because guess where they come from? The world is always changing, the advent of mass protests are just a symptom of bigger changes to come, and as such may barely be just a blip on the radar. But the reason radar was invented is because even those faint tracers can turn into screaming bombers and some people like to be informed about these things ahead of time.

Mr. Reason, I find a duality in your comments that I've been noticing everywhere. You want us to be soft, and you want us to be hard. When it comes to accepting the social dominance of irredeemable consumption, war-mongering, get-rich quick schemes, you want everyone to roll over and bear it. Yet, when it comes to taking a beating, you demand stoic dignity. So natually, you criticize those who stand up to the abuses of the regime in power, and mock those who cry when they get hit. I don't know what kind of effect you're trying to achieve by posting to this web site, but if you really want to get people's attention, you should clarify which side you're on. Soft or hard, freedom or police state, love or hate. These words may mean different things to you than they do to me, but it'd be nice to know which you identify with.

To lil' insanity 24.Aug.2002 22:05

xyz

Wow, you sound just like GWB with all this "which side are you on" guff.

I was down at the protests, somewhat as an observer, somewhat as a neutral who is becoming more disenchanted with our president daily. I didn't see any pepper spraying, but friends of mine were pepper sprayed, so I don't dispute that it happened.

But, above all, my biggest observation was that the protests were a disorganized mess, a pile of factions hooting and hollering for everything from old growth to free palestine to health care to who knows what. To suggest to anyone that it's a matter of us vs. them -- and to further create a disparaging ideological template in which to drop the Reason family -- is itself insanity.

I saw plenty of assholes, punks who were deliberately fucking with the cops in the full knowledge that the cops wouldn't just reach out and strike them. Didn't you? Are these pussies part of your "us"?

Sheepmocracy 24.Aug.2002 22:13

Little Buddha

Hey all,

I am so glad I ran into this web-site! I found out about this protest by accident. Even though I watch the news every day from numerous sources (i.e., Bloomberg, WSJ, IBD, NYT, all major news channels), there was hardly a mention of the Oregon protest anywhere! And I live in NYC. Imagine what the rest of the country does NOT know.

I used to be a big fan of this country (I still think its history and values were great); however, after traveling and meeting Europeans, including the "hated French", I have finally opened my eyes to the reality of the U.S. The brainwashing, etc. from the government which you all probably know about.

Instead of hearing major world news here in NYC, we hear about who got mugged a few blocks from us, and of course, the weather. Then, they're the opium-like gossip stories we get hooked on (i.e, kidnappings, OJ Simpson, Lewinsky, Guiliani's divorce). Behind all of this , I see many problems:

1)Lobby groups control this country
a) examples include: Israel/US relationship, Bush's comments echo Israeli thinking such as a "pre-emptive strike" on Iraq. (just like what was done in 1979 at Iran's nuclear power plant).
b)Lack of enviromental/Clean Air act enforcement

2) Corporations control this country
a) we all know many examples

3) People are taught not to ask questions. (This is a lot like the British TV show, "THE PRISONER"). After 9/11 occured, not ONE person asked whether the U.S. was in any way responsible. I used to work in 2 World Trade Center and was a volunteer fire warden. You all should have heard how poorly this place was built and no one could do anything about it b/c it was a Quasi-publicly owned faclity.

The whole set-up of this economy allows for sheepish thinking, regardless of the internet. Most people are poor with little College education and much of this country is "third world" (just take a look at the infrastructure of roads etc.). Unlike Europe, Americans work much harder and have little vacation time. And what leisure time they do have is spent watching sports. So, where is the time to stop and think. Instead, people are busy making money and tending to their families. Thanks for letting me vent some of my
anger and for letting me realize that there are some people with open minds/hearts.

"Little Buddha"

We're the Police Even American? 24.Aug.2002 22:24

American Patriot Sympathizer

We're the police even American? With Clinton authorizing 150,000 foreigners to come over and become police gestapos, with Bush continuing the practice, do you even know these police were American?

The reason they can beat on civilians without thought is because most of the Police State is Russian and German! Notice they are always covering their faces with hats or helmets and don't speak so their accents don't give them away!

We are not heading into a police state, we already are one!

 http://www.americanholocaust.50megs.com

Wake Up America!!

To Lil Insanity 24.Aug.2002 22:44

Sr. Reason

I find it difficult to pidgeon-hole myself into either with you or against you. I support some of the causes mentioned here but do not support others. I am with you, yet I am not.

As time passes, I become disillusioned with you. I have noticed a growing intolerance to differing opinions. A close-mindedness where each event is fit into a pre-conceived worldview. There is a quickness to judge, to classify people into certain categories which can summarily be dismissed. A lack of historical perspective so that a minor event becames on par with a major catastrophe. A tendency to justify dastardly deeds done when they are committed by groups with similar agendas. A sense that you are adding noise to the situation and not solving the problem. A submission to the feelings of anger over reason. Expressions of hate that make me feel ill.

I feel that you are unhappy with the way the world is and do not know where to turn. You are angry and want people to know. You do not have the answers so you lash out. You hate authority but continually test its bounds, like a child testing his parents.

So for these various reasons, I cannot commit myself to being with you entirely although some of your work I do laud.

-The Man in the middle

relative 24.Aug.2002 23:04

Łemon

Not to demean you all in any way - but - Portland wasn't Belgrade. For whatever reason you ended up with the blame for the violence. That makes us look like thugs... not the most menancing one but thugs.
That your helping everyone get over that silly "because you go hug some firefighters you must have a clue what your doing" is quite laudable. Plus protests are dangerous, people do die, so thank you. America is a little less of an embarassement as some people hit the streets and pointed out that not everyone is a regressive fiend of the neo conservative right.
Hope you make it to Washington for the IMF/Worldbank action

hate to break it to ya 24.Aug.2002 23:32

Cousin It

I was down on the bus mall the other day, and saw an example of the spray-painted grafitti on a plexiglass bus shelter: "FUCK BUSH" in red spray paint, on 6'th, right near the MAX tracks.

No doubt my tax money has paid for it's removal by now.
Oh well, my tax money pays for lots of things I hate, inarticulate politicking probably among the least odious.
But one of the sneering Republican morons in my Taxi put it pretty well-"Yeah, I bet THAT's gonna make a big difference in his policies"

It was there, and probably other vandalism as well. When you fuck with the Dobermans of the Bankers, they bite, you know ? That sucks, but it shouldn't suprise you, hmm ?

P.S. : I found a really badass military gas mask for real cheap once...I wonder how easy it would be to make one of those Bio-Warfare Agent "Scrubbing Stations" pictured in those photos the other day ?

Back to the issue at hand 25.Aug.2002 00:12

another parent

So what are we going to do? I believe that the majority of us reading this are outraged--instead of blaming the victims--so what next?

I just want to make sure that there's a visible reaction to this knee-jerk brutality that's becoming routine here. The politicians should SEE us and KNOW that we're pissed. And that we'll react the same next time we vote.

Jobs should be lost over this. I *hope* the city is taken to court because the people in immediate power aren't reining in an increasingly militarized and violent police force. Someone who pepper-sprays a parent in the face when he/she is trying to leave with their kids, who sprays an infant, is out of bounds of his job and doesn't have the judgement or self-control to handle the responsibility of it. NO ONE here should feel safe knowing that they might encounter someone like that.

Where? When? And how to organize? I want to see as many Portlanders protesting this abuse as were there to protest Bush.

REALIZE REBEL REVOLUTIONIZE 25.Aug.2002 00:31

Socialabortion chowmeinlane@hotmail.com

All of us complain about the state of our society.

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

Ranting on a message board won't solve anything.

So, let's start some kind of weekly or bimonthly meeting.

Maybe meet at the square and brainstorm ideas to market towards the masses.

To display to the public that THINGS ARE NOT OK, to put it bluntly.

All we have to do is
realize
REBEL
revolutionize


-laurel-


The Portland Police are American as Apple Pie 25.Aug.2002 01:29

anti-patriot

Regarding the comments by "American Patriot Sympathizer" about the Portland police perhaps not being Americans but foreigners.

The Portland Police department is American as apple pie. If you check the background of most of these pigs, they were born and bred here in the good old Fascist USA. Moreover, the majority of these Nazis are White males who probably believe in God, Family, and Nation, fly their American Flag Rag every chance they get, and sing God Bless America with a tear in their eye--mostly likely similar to yourself.

Your comments that Clinton and Bush have brought over foreigners to serve in US police departments are comical as they are ludicrous. Your message in general is a pathetic and feeble attempt to deflect blame and responsibility for the police brutality commited by the Portland PD away from the violent American culture which produces this brutality and onto some foreign scapegoat.

Nice try but no cigar. You want someone to blame? You and other American "patriots" should start taking a hard look in the mirror and point the finger at your American system itself, which is becoming ever more corrupt, sadistic, and violent day by day.

For the Family of "Reason" 25.Aug.2002 10:03

42

What a load of crap!

Granted, for people of the World who suffer deadly oppression, our events here in Portland are likely of little concern. However, to state that we are merely whining, or should not be complaining because there are others who are worse off is directly parallel to telling the victim of a petty theft to be quiet because the guy down the street had his car stolen. Or telling a rape victim that she is "lucky" because another woman was killed today. That someone else's suffering is greater does not make the suffering of another individual any less.

Also, by your reasoning, we should take whatever the police or our government dish out unless our situation is as bad as that in Kosovo. Do you need to have the stupidity of this logic pointed out to you? By the time it gets that bad, it's too late to do anything about it!!! We must stand up for our rights and freedoms while we still have them. After we lose our rights, our property or our lives, it is too damn late!

meetings 25.Aug.2002 10:12

Greenboy greenboy@positive-youthfoundation.com

Hey I really like the idea of meetings!

But I think the idea that "Ranting on a message board won't solve anything." is only partially true. I think having online dialogue is important... It helps us link with people who from different regions. Personally, I live in Canada and if it were not for internet I would not be able to make this post, nor would I have read your post.

If we used maybe a chatroom or something and had scheduled meetings between activist regarding different world reaching issues I think it could have a great impact on organizing.

Thanks for your time

Justin Williams
Civis Mundi

P.s. Local meeting in Parks and the like are also a great idea so that we can be seen and our voice heard!

Mr Reason responds to 42 25.Aug.2002 12:03

Mr. Reason

I don't deny that your "suffering" was real. I began by pointing out that Alan Graf's characterization of it as an "atrocity against humanity" is grossly over-done. This type of mischaracterization does not help the activist community. To make a larger point, this is yet another example of a lack of perspective among the folks here. This "suffering" has now become a cause celebre while the particular causes that were agitated for on A22 get relegated to the back burner.

Before the A22 protests, various issues of forest policy, workers rights, Cynthia McKinney, etc were front and center on Portland IndyMedia. Now, the focus is on us, the activist community, how we were wronged and what we're going to do about it. We have exchanged substantive issues for a voyeurstic sideshow of protest photos. For the next few weeks, we will not be able to get past focusing on ourselves and our particular situation. When you think of the broader context --> the worldwide concerns where people are dying daily, you might think that it would help them to stay focused on the mission and not be sidetracked by little obstacles that get put in our path.

Graffiti - my survey. 25.Aug.2002 12:15

B.P.

Yes there definatly was some graffiti done with spraypaint.
However, the VAST MAJORITY of things written on walls was chalk. I looked all ove and could only find about a dozen instances of spraypaint. That is a hell of a ratio! There where somewhere between 2000 and 3000 people there.

I belive if you compared this to the amount of vandalism that might happen in that same area without a protest the diffence would be slight. Clearly not enough to justify an attack on a peaceful crowd.

In addition, I'm not going to get bent out of shape if Banana Republic gets a "SWEATSHOP" painted on there glass. ITS TRUE!
They should be tried for crimes against humanity, not vandalized!

Wake Up America 25.Aug.2002 12:18

I agree

Portland, Oregon is infamous yes, but not for the latest round of police tyranny. Why don't you call up Gunderson Steel and ask them what they've been manufacturing over the past year.

Truth is, Gunderson (name of company or city in Portland, look for steel manufacturing there) has been contracted by the government to produce hundreds of thousands of white 3 tier train cars. What's so special about them? Each car is outfitted with shackles to hold human resistors against the coming New World Order and martial law. Want to see a picture?  http://www.americanholocaust.50megs.com you can refute my words, but I can dare say you can refute what you'll see with your own eyes. Just scroll through the site.

We Americans are being setup for a satanic New World Order takeover. The terrorism our own government creates is merely to excuse the stripping away of our freedoms and civil rights. Homeland Security is nothing more than to usher in a police state, take away our rights, then send us to concentration camps for resisting. We must stop it now before it is too late!!

How many of you will have to see these white train cars, outside of every major city already, before you wake up and smell the coffee, by then it could be too late.

We need public protesting now!

Regarding Alan's statement 25.Aug.2002 12:26

Portlander

Alan wasn't making a general statement.

He was using legal language when he said "atrocity against humanity." Under international law, there is such a category. It falls short of the mass "crime against humanity."

I would agree that what Alan described falls under the legal definitions of an "atrocity against humanity.

One of our points of focus 25.Aug.2002 12:31

witness

One of the major points of focus is our right to peacefully demonstrate in the streets without police interferance, intimidation, or violence. We must make sure that the folks who were involved in attacking innocent people should be treated like common criminals who commit assault. We must make the police establishment explain their motives, and actions, who gave the orders. From one source I heard it was the secret service who decided that the protesters were too close and needed to be moved and what the police in the future will do to ensure this never happens again.

What it really comes down to is People in Bush/Smiths fundraiser were being affected by our demonstration and it was at that point that any force necessary to move and disrupt our protest was put into effect by the Portland Police.

The nation is watching, and we are outraged.. 27.Aug.2002 23:51

Michael Richmond Richmond_Michael@hotmail.com

It breaks my heart to see the brutality in Portland, in the state of my birth, and where many of my family live.

The people of Alaska with conscience feel your pain and now know what to expect when we engage in peaceful protest according to our Constitutional rights. If this could happen in Portland, what would happen in Anchorage, or Fairbanks, a military/oil dominated town (and state) where I live. I am trying as best I can to direct people to sites for the true story, as you sure had no idea by watching the corporations (why even bother calling them media anymore?).

Your mayor should be thrown out of office forthwith. What kind of person would not even respond for an interview when innocent babies are harmed? The same kind of person who supports murder, excuse me, "pre-emptive military strikes", no doubt. She obviously cares nothing for the citizens of her city.

The coming months and years are going to be hard and turbulent for people of conscience, but justice always prevails, in the end. Nature will see to that eventually, if we don't.

Peace and blessings from your Northern neighbors!

907-455-9568
P.O. Box 83462, Fairbanks, AK 99708

Who pays your check, Pig? 28.Aug.2002 23:15

Red Will

Hey, you baby pepperspraying, elderly woman manhandling pigs - You had better keep in mind who pays your wages. It's not the corporate elitist scumbags you defend (hell, they hardly pay any taxes at all these days), IT'S US.. the guys that take a day off work now and then to exercise our RIGHT to oppose this corporate fascist regime. You work for us, asshole.

Bush Is Like Saddam 03.Sep.2002 20:23

Luckey

Bush and Saddam use chemical weapons on their own people.

The Bush Gestapo formerly known as the Portland Police were hired to protect Bush. Remember Bush has said expressed his desire to be the dictator on several occasions.

Those were peaceful protestors. The police were the ones who needed to be controlled. Bush's reason for even being in Oregon was to raise millions for the Republican Party.