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Police open fire on protestors - rubber bullets

Police have opened fire on Bush protestors with rubber bullets, pepper spray and gas. The crowds of people are moving around and regrouping.
The crowd was standing at the barricades and the police had called a state of emergency. Pepper spray was used on group early on. Batons were used on some people. Group included babies in strollers and older people, also people in wheelchairs. Those that could get out of the way were cut off surronded by police. There are snipers on the roofs.

All protestors were given a phone number to write on their arm by legal group that would hook them up with legal services if they are arrested. There are also medic's intersperse in the crowd.

The crowd included union people - longshoremen, anti-war people, people who see BBush as a corporate lackey who is stealing our retirement.

sue Gordon Smith 22.Aug.2002 18:50

0rganism

The pea-packin' jackass decided it would be a great idea to hold his fundraiser in Portland, and cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars in police overtime while he poses with W and donors for photos at what, $25k per? That's sick. Most of his "guests" are coming from Salem anyway, hold the stupid fundraiser there or pay for the damages caused by police.

It's well past time to hold these moron politicos accountable for the damage they cause; after the "Little Beirut" incident the Bushes know damn well they're unwelcome here. How many millions did W make for Gordo today? I think he can afford to pay up. Maybe those big money donors oughta donate their fat wallets to the Portland Public Schools, which are dying, or even the FOP pension fund, instead of Mr. Megabucks Smith.

Things are really going to escalate now. 22.Aug.2002 18:51

-Z

Shooting rubber bullets at US citizens because they are protesting? We are on the verge of a very big storm of trouble thanks to the bu$h-monster in the White House. Time to wake up America!
-Z

police reaction to Portland protest 22.Aug.2002 19:03

Lisa Thomas wearingpurple@yahoo.com

This will backfire. Even our most ostrich-like citizens are not going to stand for rubber bullets being shot in crowds with babies in strollers. This will hopefully wake people up as to what kind of people are running our country and how much closer to a police state we are moving.

Mr. Ostrich speaks 22.Aug.2002 19:19

Ostrich

As one of the ostriches you referred to, I would like to contribute.

I can stand for rubber bullets just fine. It's a pretty measured response...after all for a group of people begging for it. This isn't Tiananmen where anybody was going to get squashed.

reasonable? 22.Aug.2002 19:23

ohmessylife

how is shooting rubber bullets at elderly and disabled citizens and children who are exercising their right to protest a measured response?

To the Ostrich: 22.Aug.2002 19:25

Anti-Fascist

... Key word you missed-YET! So it's o.k. with you if unarmed people are shot with rubber bullets(or anything else)? You must be one of the cops!

Thank You! 22.Aug.2002 19:27

Melinda from Salt Lake City

I love you Portland! You are the true patriots. Thank you! Every city in America should be greeting the unelected fraud in the same manner you did today. I turned on CNN and they really downplayed the protests (I'm guessing that, as in the Reagan years, they have the intelligence agencies in the newsroom again).

However, I am OUTRAGED that the protestors were fired upon with tear gas, pepper spray and rubber bullets. If there were elderly, children and babies, nevermind "human beings" in the crowd, the police should NEVER have raised their weapons unless they were in danger of being harmed. These were peaceful protests! At the very least, the Europeans authorities start out with hoses of water, and that is when the crowds start getting nasty. This is unacceptable in a self-governed (yeah, right) Republic!!!

Mr. Ostrich 22.Aug.2002 19:38

Melinda from Salt Lake City

Let me guess...Republican? I forget--if it's anything more developed than a fetus, those on the right could give a shit if it's bombed, gassed or shot at.

Ostrich replies 22.Aug.2002 19:46

Ostrich

I'm not a cop. I'm just an ordinary guy. C'mon, it's not like the police started firing rubber bullets just for the heck of it. They used it as a way to restore order to the situation. I don't know if you recognize this, but 99% of the city just wants to get home on time without being escorted by police, taking alternate (read: slow) routes home, getting abused by protestors, or getting put in harm's way. I fear the protesting mob more than the police.

ARREST BUSH FOR WAR CRIMES 22.Aug.2002 19:46

EUGENE...A LITTLE BERUIT TOO, NAZI SCUMBAGS!

Wish I was there...couldn't make drive from Eugene. Bombing small villages and killing all the people is my idea of a war crime...if Milosovich can fall so can Bush...Portland police are looking for provaction...get their badge numbers when they beat up 16 year olds...deal with them in legal system when it is effective but deal with them...

Shrub is a traitor 22.Aug.2002 19:49

BaldymcGregor

Let's face it - Shrub is a cowardly traitor. America knows it, and America (who did not elect him) HATES Shrub. I hear folks talking - in line, at the grocery store, in restaurants, at the gas station, etc. They absolutely hate him - old folks, black, white, etc. The only people that like him are the extreme rich. Me thinks his days are, so to speak, numbered, as president. As for me and my kids, well, I've always taught them that war and killing are wrong, and that war is for fools, so at least they won't be coming home in body bags. God help the sheeple.

I saw it with my own eyes 22.Aug.2002 20:00

Randy

I was between 5th and 6th on the sidewalk. Maybe the ones in front were warned to move, but I didn't hear any warning. It had been a peaceful protest. Suddenly the police came forward spraying pepper spray. A man nearby with an infant in a backpack got hit real good. The baby's face was so red I thought it had quit breathing. We pounded on the door at Carl's Jr. asking for water, but they had locked up. From the other direction came cop cars through the crowd and rubber bullets were fired at those closest to the cars. I kept retreating but the cops kept spraying. Lots of people were sprayed including the camera man from Channel 2 KATU. Some of us ended up across the street at Standard Insurance and used the fountain and pool.

Good Sobriquet! 22.Aug.2002 20:25

Izzy

Dear Mr. Ostrich - Congratulations on giving yourself such an apt name. But I guess "getting home on time" is the most important thing when you don't give a shit how the money you give the criminals in Washington is used - or maybe you think bombing the crap out of everyone and looting the economy is just fine - another "measured response." Phooey!

About "rubber bullets" et al 22.Aug.2002 20:36

0rganism

These rubber bullets, bean bags, tear gases, and pepper sprays are NOT non-lethal weapons. They are LESS LETHAL weapons. Rubber bullets are metal cores coated in rubber. Bean bags are bags of METAL beans, hitting hard enough to incapacitate a normal person at 50 yards.

If you get hit in the temple by a rubber bullet, you can die real quick. If you are asthmatic, please be careful of the pepper spray. The police don't necessarily want us dead, but they aren't sympathetic either, and basically regard us as ornery cattle to be herded around, rather than humans with the rights of American citizens.

There is no reason in the world for a bush to visit Portland, ever again. Let's make sure they stay out by suing Gordo for every penny he got from this idiot event.

To the Ostrich 22.Aug.2002 20:57

Hope Marston hmarston@epud.net

I was there at the front of the police barricade when the cops told us they were declaring an emergency and if we didn't leave, we'd be arrested. The crowd shouted so loud, it is doubtful that anyone beyond the first ten layers of people even heard the warning.

What emergency? We were protesting. We were standing behind the barricades. If they wanted the barricades in a different place, they should have set them up in a different place to begin with. They declared a phony "emergency" just so they could show off their jack boots, blackjacks, guns, tear gas and pepper spray. I actually watched a line of them, beating their black jacks against their boots in a Hitleresque rhythm. They were not police; they were paramilitary troopers.

We were peacefully protesting. We have a right to protest in this country at least for a little while longer -- and if a few people don't make it home from work on time, tough. You should have gotten out of your car and joined us. We're not out there to have a party; we're fighting for all of our rights to be free human beings. The rights we were guaranteed by the Constitution -- the rights that Bush has shredded with his so-called USA PATRIOT Act -- the rights that Ashcroft seeks to eliminate by putting people in concentration camps. Is what's happening in this upside down world serious enough for you?

Maybe you'll wake up to the fact that we're living in a dictatorship with an unelected president at the helm -- taking us into war du jour at his whim. The number of lives that all of us are responsible for because of Bush's infinite "terror war" is more lives than any of us can bear responsibility for. It is up to us to stop Herr Bush before he does any more damage. That's what we were doing out in the streets today. Broadcasting our message that we do not want to go to war in Iraq -- we do not want to lose any more rights. We do not want more people "disappeared," as has happened to more than 1000 Arab nationals since Sep 11. We are not enemy combatants, as Jose Padilla has been declared -- held in a military brig since May without the due process that all citizens are guaranteed by the Constitution.

The Portland police acted shamefully. They bullied for no reason. They declared emergency when there was no emergency. They intimidated people from exercising freedom of speech. They are criminals, insulating the master criminal, George W. Bush, commander in thief.

Hope Marston
Eugene

To Izzy 22.Aug.2002 21:12

Ostrich

Of course I care how money in Washington is being misused and I care about the economy. But I don't think that dancing around in the streets is going to accomplish anything.

Pee on pResident BuSh. 22.Aug.2002 21:29

Roger rgreens@attbi.com

Go for it, Portland. Kick that rotten stinkin' Georgie Peorgie butt. He sure is a chicken-hawk -- never fought a war, but wants our boys to do it for him. Disgraceful. When are the sheeple gonna wake up??

Re: I saw it with my own eyes 22.Aug.2002 21:32

voiceofreason

I saw it with my own eyes too. There were people there who wanted to provoke police action. I saw one guy, about 55, long gray pony tail, very tall, who would just not get back on the sidewalk when asked to do so by the police, who forced a confrontation with the cops so they had to push him back up onto the sidewalk.

This was before the presidential motorcade came by. The obvious reason for him to stay on the sidewalk was so he wouldn't get run over by the motorcade.

Can anyone say Duuuuuuhhh????? Have another doobie, Cheech...

Later I saw this same idiot on the front lines of the protest, similarly provoking action by the police.

It's idiots like this and their hangers-on who:

1. Discredit those of us who are interested in legitimate protest and political action.

2. Make people who would otherwise attend protests afraid and/or embarrased to come.

I mean, grow up. Just grow up. The issues at stake are much more important than your little fantasy ego trip of civil disobedience glory. Things are getting very serious. Too bad you're not, because that way you're not going to get anywhere.

Anyone who got arrested is a traitor and/or an idiot. Or a Quisling. Get with the program.

Maybe start by putting down the hash pipe? Go to the library and look up the term "Quisling"?

on the front line 22.Aug.2002 21:33

james h

On the broadway and taylor front, around 7pm it was pretty thin. most of the protesters were moving between pioneer sq and one of the other fronts. There were a couple dozen protesters and just a couple cops on the other side of the line. obvious bush supporters, dressed nice and quite drunk kept filing out of the hilton and into the 'heathmead?' hotel. as they were walking in between hotels, a few of us would loudly booo and excercise our freedom of expression and make such statements as, "if you support bush, you support fascism," and "you are supporting evil." soon, there were a few cops, then a few more people. around 7:30 the riot cops came into place, and soon, that area became the next big focus of protesters. We demonstrated, "peaceful protest" i was right on the handrail. around 8pm, the truck with the loud speakers pulled up, more riot police, and declared a state of emergency, and that anyone on broadway, in that intersection, would be arrested! the crowd backed up shouting, "shame on you", and "unconstitutional".
it is my opinion that the police responded to the peaceful constitutionally-supported heckling, that us protesters were engaged in. and declared an unconstitutional state of emergency to force us back from that spot. so all the republican cohorts could get drunk in peace. (this is just one snippet and one perpective from the many happenings and many perspectives that took place today)

all in all: way to go portland protesters! job well done!

Bush in 2004 22.Aug.2002 21:35

Joe Blow

You have my vote, Mr. President

God Bless Portland! 22.Aug.2002 21:48

On Jacob's Ladder

Thank you Portland for sending the message loud and clear! I thought the sheeple of this country too comfortable, too stupid, too crass to really care about what is happening here. We can never again ask "How did the German people let it happen?" Wake up - if we do not take to the streets we are letting it happen here. Even Gore (ol'"I'll fight for you" Al) ran and hid under a rock...Taking it to the streets is the only way - there is no other way - hey, Ostrich, do you think writing your Congressperson is the way to do it? They are owned by someone else, not by thee and me...The few who are not don't last (think Anita McKinney). Do you think the ballot is the way? Have you forgotten Florida? They will only "count" the votes they want to count.
The only hope we have is in the streets...In closing, a historical messsage for you:
"Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
-Hermann Goering, Nazi leader, at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II

The dick in ostriche's ass 22.Aug.2002 22:08

george w. bullshit

As the president of the U.S., I am just trying to make America better for everyone. Thats whut you want to be, right America, better than everyone else? And to keep America number one I will do everything I can do. Even sacrifce the people's health with rubber bullets.

It's a shame... 22.Aug.2002 23:27

Bob BigBooty

that they didn't shoot into the crowd with SS-109 instead of rubber bullets. It's what the protesters deserved.

'Nite all...Dinner time...Deep fried Spotted Owl, with Ketchup! yum!!!

Thank you Portland Patriots 23.Aug.2002 00:14

sf1

Congratulations and thank you to the Portland Patriots who let Illegitimate George know in no uncertain terms that his ilk is unwanted, intolerable, and that the citizens are starting to push back.

Inform as many people as you can how you stood up for your country and against pResident. The media is playing this down or even avoiding this news.

Listen to Ray Taliaferro on KGO (810 am)0100-0500 PST. He and his growing number of Passionate Patriots are with you Portland Patriots.
sf1

There is no point? Provoked? 23.Aug.2002 00:14

Todd

These comments come up every time. First to yee who said there is nothing accomplished by this. I spoke with people of atleast 10 nationalities, all classes, races, and genders. EVery major media station was down there. Thousands of people participated and thousands witnessed the events. When one looks at history one sees that direct action has yielded the activist's demands. When in the 1930's people took to the streets they won the basic worker's rights that we are fighting to keep today, the same is true of the civil rights movement. Legislation on the other hand has rarely if ever been progresive without the direct action of dedicated citizens. I am too tired to get this across clearly, but in all great social movements mass mobilization and participation by the members of the community has always been the driving force behind chane.

On the provocation note, it is true some people egged the plocie on. I wonder what it seems like to them, given that the angry people are often in the front and thats all they see. Still they couldn't have thought about it that much because they were spraying the pedestrians who weren't even in the protest along the sidelines. Furthermore the provocateurs were by far the minority and could in no way account for all the violence (forgetting that yelling at someone doesn't warrant endangering their lives with chemical warfare). While I don't participate in that overly masculine behavior I now understand where it comes from. THere is no sense to police violence here. It is indiscriminate, mostly unprovoked and dumb. It seems like they act without much thought or concern really. That is a familiar picture, it comes from the armed services, executioners, and war criminals. It is something deep within us and a force that has been utilized for all time, in the family, the State, and all our human interactions.

Portland Pepper Spray 23.Aug.2002 00:43

Ira Maude Bushwacher

Am I supposed to be surprised?

What about the mass teenager arrest in a KMart Parking lot in Houston?

Does anyone know what the term "Police State" means?

This is just the beginning. Somebody should have mentioned the term "Nepotism" in the last Presidential election. But it's too late now.

furthur signs of downplay from oregonian 23.Aug.2002 02:27

James H

Speaking of downplaying the protests, check out this article posted by oregonolive. (After the article I posted my response to the oregonian)

---->  http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf?/news/0822protest.frame
entitled: Activists in Portland protest Bush policies

(Here is that article pasted)
PORTLAND -- Several hundred hooting and screaming protesters marched in downtown Portland on Thursday as President Bush arrived to raise money for the re-election campaign of U.S. Sen. Gordon Smith.

Riot police massed near the Hilton Hotel after Bush´s arrival there. The activists had marched from a downtown park toward the hotel.

Many of the protesters criticized a new forest initiative announced earlier in the day by Bush at a fairgrounds in Central Point.

One of the activists -- Jill Howdyshell -- was perched about 25 feet above the crowd on a tree platform set up by the Cascadia Forest Alliance.

"The plan will suspend all environmental laws and public involvement just to push more road-building and logging on public lands," said Carrie Taylor, 24, a volunteer with the environmental group.

The policy would make it easier for timber companies to cut wood from fire-prone national forests.

"The new policy is classic doublespeak," said Kenneth Kreuschu, 24, also from Cascadia Forest Alliance. "It has been shown time and again that more cutting leads to more fire. The new policy is a hoax."

Some of the activists were worried about a possible war with Iraq.

"I don´t think any American boys´ lives are worth a barrel of oil," said Rob Moitoza, 57, who carried a sign that said: "Vets Against Bush."

Moitoza said he served two years in the Navy aboard an aircraft carrier during the Vietnam War and fears a much worse conflict if U.S. troops are sent to Iraq.

"If he (Bush) starts a war against Iraq, it will be to get re-elected. All he cares about is wealth and power," Moitoza said.

Before flying to Portland from Medford, Bush was ferried to the still-smoldering Squires Peak fire, for what his advisers billed as a firsthand look at the dramatic difference made by the kind of policies the president advocates.

A dozen or more demonstrators dotted Bush´s motorcade route up Squires Mountain. Some of the hand-lettered signs they waved at him: "No attack of Iraq. You can´t fix Daddy´s mistake" and "More forests, less Bush."

They were far outnumbered by local families waiting at the ends of their driveways holding "We love you" and "We support you" signs.

Thursday, August 22, 2002
By Typhanny Tucker of the Associated Press


*I find this article to be downplaying the events and significance of today's protest of George W and his policies, and therefor, misrepresenting the people of Portland Oregon. First thing to clear up is that there were several thousand protesters present, not several hundred! The events of today show us that Bush and his cohort Gordon Smith are not supported here. There is an increasing disdain toward the whole Bush administration, and part of the reason this country is not fully waking up to this fact is because you in the main media abuse your privilege of influence, and prevent people from really seeing the whole truth. If you did, everyone across the country would connect the dots and see the bigger picture. Which is that, ´we, the people of America, do not support George Bush and his administration, and we never have. Further, we the people didn´t even elect him into office. He is not speaking for us, we are speaking for ourselves. And certainly what Portland Oregon is saying, and probably what the whole country is saying, is that we the people, want a new election. We are the true Voice of America. You are obliged to report this truth. If you do not, than you are both deceiving us (the people of America **your friends, family, neighbors**), and more ultimately, you are deceiving yourselves. This country, certainly this city, knows the Bush administration is eroding our constitution, and her rights, and at the current trajectory, is leaning heavily toward fascism.

Parts of the article had basically good information, though it definitely lacked the true numbers and seriousess of the protest downtown.(more accurately portrayed by foxpdx.com (kptv/kpdx)(maybe they could relate since they were among those getting pepper sprayed) @  link to www.kpdx.com).

Sincerely,
James Hooper
Portland, Oregon.

To The Aptly Named Ostrich 23.Aug.2002 02:53

Don in St Louis

I'm a 55 year old man, not what most people would call a "liberal", more "middle of the road".

You need to enter the real world. Yeh, there are some kids there that just get aroused by all the excitement and face-offs. But most are good young people like the protesters from the 60's. It's good to see - and they protest for good reason. Do you really think the aristcrats from the 1800's are no longer with us? They still see themselves as priviledged and taking care of each other at our expense.

Some of the citizenry has "woke up". You, apparently, have not.
To The Aptly Named  Ostrich
To The Aptly Named Ostrich

GRRRRRRRRR 23.Aug.2002 03:59

copymark copymark@richmond.com

From the link that James put up:

"In answer to reports that children were also struck (by pepper spray) ...a police spokesperson says children should have been kept away from a demonstration."

Shame on the Portland Police and shame on the reactionary extremists who have taken over government and turned our Bill of Rights into yet another derivative to be traded.

To keep our children away from citizens bravely exercising their first amendment rights is to keep them from their birthright as American citizens.


Some errors... 23.Aug.2002 04:03

The Red Pen

"Rubber bullets are metal cores coated in rubber."

False...at least as it applies in this case.

"Bean bags are bags of METAL beans, hitting hard enough to incapacitate a normal person at 50 yards."

False. 50 yards is well over the effective range.

"If you get hit in the temple by a rubber bullet, you can die real quick."

True...at close range.

"If you are asthmatic, please be careful of the pepper spray."

False. Citizens (in commercial training courses) and cops (as part of certification) who have asthma are regularly sprayed directly in the face with pepper spray as part of their training.

"The police don't necessarily want us dead, but they aren't sympathetic either, and basically regard us as ornery cattle to be herded around, rather than humans with the rights of American citizens."

The right to destroy property, intentionally disrupt traffic, block streets and transit lines, throw rocks and bottles, and spit on people?

...or were you talking about the rights of business owners to not have their property destroyed, or the rights of workers to get home to their families, or the rights of people in their cars to not be vandalized and threatened?

You have the right to assemble. You have the right to demonstrate and protest. You have the right to voice your opinion. You do not have the constitutional right to take over the streets of a city, destroy property, cross police lines, jump on and vandalize cars, or assault people.

The problem, of course, is if you assert your constitutional right to assemble without mixing in all that other stuff...nobody pays attention...and you don't like that.

The people who are complaining about the use of force by the cops are the same people who are declaring this a "Great Day". It's because they got what they wanted...a confrontation that produces coverage and good pictures.

THIS IS THE BEGINNING 23.Aug.2002 04:34

JL Neel dwellingtondream@aol.com

Finally one of our protests have actually been on the national news on ABC in the middle of the night and again this morning on the ABC morning news show. Let this protest be the beginning it is time the resident of the White House and his heartless vice resident get the full treatment from the opposition. We must let the nation know that they are not alone and that indeed bush does not have an approval rating except from the big business crowd and the 1% that he set out from day one of his residency to give every cent of our future federal income to so that they could help he and his mafia style family keep control of the goverment.

Welcome to the Coming NWO Police State 23.Aug.2002 04:46

Pam Schuffert MyTWaryor4JC@hotmail.com

For the past six years, I have been dedicated to traveling nationwide and worldwide to research and expose the coming POLICE STATE that is evolving, leading to AN AMERICAN HOLOCAUST. Our nation has been betrayed from the highest leels of our government and military, and the infrastructure has been carefully laid out that will turn this nation into a vassal of UN WORLD GOVERNMENT under the NEW WORLD ORDER (something totaly supported by the BUSH family for decades.)

And...a POLICE STATE will deal with ALL RESISTERS with iron-fisted harshness. My research has uncovered that America now has over 700 modern concentration camps in place, fully prepared to both hold and ultimately terminate those on the many government computerized lists of millions of American citizens profiled to be, among other things, "POTENTIAL TERRORISTS," "RESISTERS OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER," and other categories. But what IS a "POTENTIAL TERRORIST"???What IS a "RESISTER OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER"??? They can be, in fact, ANYTHING and ANYONE the government decides they can be!

Portland, OR, has played a major role in the massive preparations for THE COMING POLICE STATE. For several years now, the US government has been under secret contract with GUNDERSON STEEL fabricators in Portland, to produce the now infamous PRISONER BOXCARS WITH SHACKLES by the thousands.

Such boxcars are three tier, and contain prisoner shackles. Employees working on these prisoner boxcars have described them to outsiders. These boxcars have been quietly prepositioned across America and Canada...and in some cases, stored over the border in Mexico. They will be used to contain ultimately millions of Americans anticipated to be arrested in the coming years under martial law, and to haul them to the numerous FEMA/military detention camps located nationwide to be processed. And many such boxcars will be used in actual prisoner termination actions, at known gassing/crematory facilities suxh as the AMTRAK facility in Beech Grove, IN, or Indiantown Gap Military Reservation in PA. (One active CIA source admitted that, under MARTIAL LAW, the AMTRAK facility will terminate 26,000 religious and political prisoners every 24 hours.)

Because of the role PORTLAND, OR and GUNDERSON has played in helping to set up this future POLICE STATE, city authorities are well aware of this agenda, and their recentmilitant hard-line approach to these BUSH protestors should not be surprising. -Pam Schuffert


THIS IS OUR COUNTRY 23.Aug.2002 04:53

Quicksilver2723 WagTheDogBush@aol.com

I just want to say that the soil that visiting politicians step upon belongs to the People. Politicians are there by invitation only. They trespass the goodwill of the People when they send out police to attack citizens in their own towns and cities. Politicians are NOT royalty visiting about their plantations and properties. They are the representatives of the People, employees of the People. To suggest that they have the right to protect their political careers by spraying the People with gas or rubber bullets is incredulous. It's time that the People remind politicians of their places. They are servants to the People, not their masters. What happened in Portland, Oregon, August 22nd, where the politicians used taxpayers' own law enforcement against the People to protect their political careers is out of harmony with democratic values and laws. This abuse of the People must be punished severely and quickly before it becomes the rule rather than the exception. Oregonians should oust Gordon Smith and sue the city and/or state that colluded with him. Someone is responsible for calling for the gassing and rubber-bulleting of babies. It's time for the Republicans to clean their own house and demand accountability from those who would trample the rights of citizens.
Tell the politicians they are GUESTS, not rulars, when they visit OUR hometowns!

police use rubber bullets on protesters. 23.Aug.2002 06:20

James Higginbotham jimbm433@msn.com

to protest, is our right under the constitution... and for the police to do this all the time all over this country is outrages... we need to start fighting FIRE WITH FIRE... when they SHOOT AT US, WE SHOULD START shooting back... THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO STOP THIS CRAP...

Time to take up arms 23.Aug.2002 06:51

Refounding Fathers

Folks: It's time to buy firearms and ammo. Voting isn't working fast enough - the United Nations and other Globalists are ready to take this country down - AND THEY ARE DOING IT!!! We need to fight back hard now.

There IS a plan to attempt mass confiscation of weapons by this "evil" New World Order government - Bush and Clinton who are only willing pawns. Our marines as well as other foreign troops have been training for this for the last 6 years - ALL OF THIS URBAN WARFARE TRAINING HAS BEEN DIRECTED AT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

None, NONE of what happened in Portland was covered by the lamestream media. Time to lock and load - our second revoluion is very near.

Lastly, and most importantly, we need to pray to the LORD Jesus Christ for His support during this second revolution. We need God on "our" side.

Militias Against a Police State: 23.Aug.2002 06:52

Kenneth Chrane kenneth.chrane@verizon.net

A well Regulated Militia, being necessary for the Security of a Free state, the right of the people to keep and bare Arms shall not be infringed.
Second Article, and admenment to the United States Constitution.
The Bush admenstration is disreguarding the right of the people to peacefully asimbol.
When police use ruber bullets against the people they must be met with armed resistance.

http://kenneth.chrane@verizon.net
(410) 486-1569
(410) 486-1569

Thanks to the protesters 23.Aug.2002 06:57

Geoff Payne (Birmingham, Alabama)

I just want to say thanks to all who put themselves in harms way to protest Adolf Bush.

Just because I'm from the south doesn't mean that I'm a bible toting conservative. There are a few liberals scattered about down here.

Keep it up and START A REVOLUTION !!

"I believe there are more instances of abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."
--James Madison


The shrinking angry white male 23.Aug.2002 07:17

Woman

"The only people that like him are the extreme rich."

The extreme rich and the pathetically frightened white males who feel they are impotent victims as they shrink to a minority voice in this land.

Darn those wimmens and blacks outnumbering them at the polls!

The only thing more pitiful than the white males the CEOS have convinced to be their butt-boys and vote GOP, are those who are in denial that they're voting the Republicans in and say they are "libertarians" or "independents" or "green."

Go Portland! Bush is a coward. Bill Clinton goes out amongst the people to this day. Any politician afraid to face the people ought to be put in stocks in the public square.

These are our public SERVANTS, folks. They are answerable to us.

Gore OR Bush - IT DOESN'T MATTER!!! 23.Aug.2002 07:25

Refounding Fathers

Folks: You need to get through your skulls that Bush-Clinton-Gore-Bush Sr. are all ON THE SAME TEAM - it is WWF wrestling inside the beltway. You are under an illusion that we have choice between democrats and republicans; you hvae been fooled and deceived. I voted for Bush and now I regret it, but don't tell me Gore wouldn't have advanced the NWO agenda!!! Look our own government was involved in Oklahoma City, WTC (1993) and 9-11. Just look at history, Hitler burned the Reichstag, then passes more laws to create his dictatorship. Many of us have bought into the CIA-controlled media - IT'S ALL CONTROLLED!!! Just take a look at the weak coverage of this protest by the lame-stream media.

Spiritual power has been taken from this country because we have turned from God (you are seeing his hand of protection lifted now). The only other type of power is physical and THAT comes from a barrel of a gun.

Lock and load because the 2nd American Revolution is right around the corner.

To "Woman" 23.Aug.2002 07:45

Refounding Fathers

Wake up - you have been duped. It doesn't matter who is President at this point (it hasn't mattered for a long time). See my prior post.

Folks: if you don't see the spiritual realm involved in this New World Order then you'll probably take the bio-chip when you are starving; this IS coming. What Pam Shuffert writes is TRUE - I have seen it with my own eyes (these concentration camps and their pre-positioned equipment).

Ever wonder why, 6 of the 8 cockpit recorders were never "recovered"? Smell a huge coverup in 9-11. Do you really think we couldn't get a fighter jet scrambled in time to intecept the second airliner smashing into tower 2? Ever wonder why building #7 collapses because of "fire." IT WASN'T EVEN HIT.

WAKE UP!!!!! Our presidents are PICKED by the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) and other satanic-elite-bankers.

Pray to God for His protection of you and your family!!! We have gotten lazy and let tyrannical people run our government for too long - NOW we are paying for that.

Re: Sue Gordon Smith 23.Aug.2002 08:24

rubbergloves

>>The pea-packin' jackass decided it would be a great idea to hold his fundraiser in Portland, and cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars in police overtime

-----

It was the protesters, not Gordon Smith, who made the police overtime necessary. Other cities don't have this problem.

Please, please, please go back to California.

My letter to White House, media & others 23.Aug.2002 08:38

A Patriotic American jacksonthor@yahoo.com

Aug. 23, 2002

Greetings:

As a 43-year-old father and American citizen, I want to express my outrage about the police action against a crowd of peaceful protesters targeting Bush's war and environmental policies Aug. 22 in Portland, Ore. I demand that you investigate this situation and help make sure this not happen again.

The crowd of protesters included babies in strollers, the elderly, and people in wheelchairs. Some reports said a few protesters banged on police cars and "jostled" some people attending the Republican fund-raiser, but overall they were peaceful. Nothing justified the police using rubber bullets, pepper spray, and gas against the crowd, when there were babies and elderly among them. One witness reported, "Suddenly the police came forward spraying pepper spray. A man nearby with an infant in a backpack got hit real good. The baby's face was so red I thought it had quit breathing."

You can go to  http://portland.indymedia.org:8081/front.php3?article_id=17241&group=webcast to see more comments.

This is not the kind of America I want my children to grow up in. This borders on fascism and a police state. The last time I checked we still have a Constitutional right to petition our government with our grievances. I know Bush and many others in Washington want to have a dictatorship where they can squash protests all the time in this manner, but that is not the country our forefathers envisioned.

Please do what you can to preserve America's true ideals of liberty and justice for all.

Sincerely,

Jackson Thoreau


WANTED For VICTORY Poster 23.Aug.2002 08:44

Dick Cheney


Inamerika 23.Aug.2002 09:35

theStark damonlaw@theStark.com

Listen up people! http://theStark.com/audio/inamerika.mp3 Damon Law | http://theStark.com


Re: THIS IS OUR CONTRY 23.Aug.2002 09:45

rubbergloves

>>I just want to say that the soil that visiting politicians step upon belongs to the People.

-----

Unfortunately, almost half of these "People" are not Oregonians at all but Californicators who have moved here from California and other places and are destroying the Oregon that once was.

We were heard 23.Aug.2002 09:59

Shar snelson858@aol.com

Unfortunately, I couldn't make it up from Eugene, but I commend all those who showed up and made their voices heard. This protest made the mainstream news--a small victory, but important, nonetheless.

Getting some press may finally show the rest of the country that we're not all willing to sit back and let Bush, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, et al silence us with their bullying Nazi tactics.

As for the person who said that children should not be at the protest...why the hell not? By all accounts, this was a peaceful demonstration. The police got out of hand.

(541) 747-7172
4520 Daisy Street, Springfield, OR 97478

bush strikes again 23.Aug.2002 10:21

cherie cheried3@earthlink.net

The force that the protesters met with in Portland is just another example of the over reaction against anyone speaking up against the bush regime.
I am amazed at how the bush team turns every event into an opportunity to push the bush agenda. Fires... fix it with allowing the timber industry to strip the earth of trees.
The trumped up excuses for the need for war is just so much more BS. Watching Rumsfield lie in his press conference the other night would be a joke if it wasn't so serious.
There are legitamate reasons to use force on rare occasions, but this is not one of them. The only reason the war machine is revving up is to push the oil industry agenda. We should not have to pay for this with money or lives. This administration is a nightmare and it is time to call a halt to this onslaught of evil now!!!!

415-717-7205

Nader in 2004 23.Aug.2002 11:02

Goog from New Jersey

Gore and Bush are owned by the same corporate interests.
Fortunately for America, Bush isn't smart enough to hide the fact that he's just a puppet.

IT'S TIME TO REMOVE BUSH AND HIS GOONS! 23.Aug.2002 11:09

Johnny Bartee johnnybartee@yahoo.com

After the actions by Police thugs in Oregon it's plain to see that now is the time to prepare for serious action against the Bush Administration. They are forcing the American People into a corner with their Police State and Nazi tactics. While they are a formidable force, WE THE PEOPLE as a united community greatly outnumber them. We have JUST CAUSE, and the RIGHT TO REMOVE this administration based on their damaging actions to the US Constitution, Bill of Rights and Civil Liberties in general. We The People have the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to THROW OUT a repressive government. Now is the time to send this message to Bush and his goons. Resign your position NOW or face the wrath of a vicious American People.

There will be a Demonstration in Crawford, Texas this Saturday August 24,2002 when Bush returns to his compound.
BE THERE AMERICA! Click this link here for directions and info:  http://www.radioleft.com/article.php?sid=484

In The Name Of Freedom,

Johnny Bartee


peace, love & understanding 23.Aug.2002 11:24

marcusa garvey

save the planet
save the children
share the wealth
impeach the shrub

peace, love & understanding 23.Aug.2002 11:24

marcusa garvey

save the planet
save the children
share the wealth
impeach the shrub

America-America......Stephenwolf 23.Aug.2002 11:27

nomad

Over thirty years ago what I thought was a noisey album by the group and then listened to the words, I would say we need to listen to them again....rather prohpetic I would say......

Reprehensible Radical Reichwing Republicans 23.Aug.2002 11:31

Larry K. Little llittle1@earthlink.net

Let's reward Bush by casting all of Oregon's votes to Gordon Smiths opponent, and let him know we don't like his attorney general forcing his religious values on the "Death With Dignity" law the Oregon voters said yes to as loud as they could. A million Oregonians should have more say than a single big mouth bigot from Missouri.

(360) 896-1765
9803 NE 83rd Street

Protesting vs. Vandalism 23.Aug.2002 11:47

Danno

I was observing on the corner on 5th and Taylor. This is what I saw....I saw a small element of protesters with their faces covered who were there to do nothing but raise hell. I watched them pick up a planter from an office building and throw it into the street, smashing it. This is vandalism, not peacefully protesting.

I saw other protestors writing messages on buildings, blocking Tri-Met, blocking traffic, throwing objects at the police, climbing traffic signals, blocking businesses that were open, spitting on the Police and defacing public property. This is civil disobedience, not peacefully protesting.

I cant believe there are people like yourselves that condone this type of protesting, then cry about the police declaring a state of emergency. You deserved to be pepper sprayed and shot with the bullets, I was there. Then you have the nerve to whine about how there were babies in strollers and little children that the Police put in harms way. Shame on YOU for bringing an infant to an event such as this. You were the ones who put those kids in harms way. I watched as the Police dispersed the Aerosole cans. I watched a father with his baby in a stroller not walking away to get his infant out of the situation. I watched him stay there, in the fog, without a moment of consideration for his child's well being. YOU give protesting a BAD name.

This was not peaceful protesting. It was juvenile.

pepper bullets 23.Aug.2002 12:00

elmojo

i was shot five times in the left side. they were plastic, round pellets that exploded with what i assume was pepper spray, only powdered.
any asshole here who thinks the police were justified (ostrich) is a blind moron that watches to much tv. the protesters were non violent, idiot. i was present for three seperate incidents of spraying and shooting, for no other reason than that sheriff declared an oregon state of emergency. yes, i heard it twice. i was close enough to hear it twice. when myself and at least ten others did not step back but instead were beaten and pushed with four-foot long batons, the police behind them decided they had better start shooting. we must have been a serious threat to the community they had closed off. this was at 8:15 or so.
as i said, i was hit five times, the highest in my shoulder. we stood and were beaten back. we stood again and were shot. the police were protecting the common good, right? dont be an idiot.
some protesters started throwing water. water! if anyone is more afraid of water than pepper-filled pellets they obviously have not left their mansion in some time.
i've said enough. to those i stood with i hope to see you again. again i will stand and brave their bullets and their chemical weapons.
this land was free, it will not be so again through cynical complacency. freedom is not guaranteed ostrich, you must stand up for it.

Got Milk? 23.Aug.2002 12:11

Gregory Gregory@hisholychurch.net

I read the bit about the man with a baby who was sprayed with pepper spray. They were looking for water to wash.
Don't use water.
Use Milk to rinse the face and eye or anywhere. This will bring the quickest relief and is fairly available. You can even figure on bringing some next time you want to exercise your freedom of speech. Baby shampoo can be used later.
Helpful hints from the His Holy Church. Http://www.hisholychurch.net/

http://Http://www.hisholychurch.net/
541-943-3208
Summer Lake

aid and abet 23.Aug.2002 13:06

Gregory Gregory@hisholychurch.ne

Danno stated, "I saw a small element of protesters with their faces covered."
What he also saw them doing was trying to disrupt things and damage property rights. One of those property rights was the right to protest and the exercise of the freedom of speech. Flower pots and paint have value but the right to free speech is considerably more valuable.
These masked individuals were virtually ineffective until they received considerable aid from other armed observers.
These were the police who chose to charge into everyone and fog people with painful chemicals and strike them and fire dangerous projectiles. This is like pulling over everyone on the freeway and giving them a ticket because some people are speeding.
The police by their actions were aiding and abetting those who wanted to create violence. They were also robbing innocent people of their rights rather than protecting those rights.
I have seen these hooded protesters before arriving in busses. I wonder who is paying for the bus rentals.
Protesters should be as harmless as a dove but they should be as wise as the serpent, too.
The police should have gone after the lawless and defended the rights of others. That is their job and that is what would have been right to do.


Blocking traffic? 23.Aug.2002 14:06

Kel-E

All I can say to anyone who camplained about not being able to get home on time, especially for drivers is that unless you live in the area that was blocked off all you are doing in whining about going about 2 blocks out of your way to find another route. I drive right by the protested area every day and I was not slowed down by more than 1 minute in getting home, I wished I could have been there myself, Bush is the worst president ever!

Flower pots and paint 23.Aug.2002 15:14

Danno

"Flower pots and paint have value but the right to free speech is considerably more valuable." - Gregory

Using this philosophy is simply an excuse for anarchism. What your saying is, it is ok to break laws that YOU deem less valuable than other laws. Much like L.A. when the rioters burned down and looted their own neighborhoods in protest of the Rodney King incident. (Two wrongs make a right)

What you have not addressed is how does civil or private property damage equate with a disagreement of the political agenda of any governmental body?

I would be interested in seeing your list of laws that are ok to break when it comes to freedom of speech.
_______________________________

"They (the Police) were also robbing innocent people of their rights rather than protecting those rights." - Gregory

You were there, you demonstrated, your voice was heard, your signs were read you marched for hours and by all accounts your protest was a success. You were robbed of nothing.

Businesses were vandalized, street barracades were broken, garbage cans were set on fire. WE, the businesses who are paying for the damage, were robbed of our protection under the law.

I wonder if you would accept damage of your home that you have to pay for because someone else decided it was not as important as their own agenda (?)

what the FBI hiding about 9/11 23.Aug.2002 15:36

andras szekely afemanon@fcc.net

Fellow Americans.
On December 2000 I obtained information on the 9/11 attack. I was debating if I
should report it to the FBI or I just keep silence about it due to the fact the FBI was
endangering my life once before. I reported to the FBI a Chinese spy whom was
very interested in anti submarine warfare and offered to pay for it. A week latter
my life was being treatened over the phone numerous times. The FBI refused to
investigate, I guess that time due to the Clinton and his fellow Democrats the trend
was not to in order not to interfere with the money flow through the Swiss route
from China. Just try to remember the When HO Lee case.
In 2001 January I hoped under the new administration the FBI will change there
mentality and willing to serve the American people best interest and not only those
few whom on the top. On February 9 th.01 in my e-mail to John Ashcroft, not only
complained about the mishandling of the Chinese spy case but on the same time I
offered my help to fight crime and terrorism. It take almost two months for the FBI
to reply. In my letter to Mr. Arthur Radford Baker in the FBI HQ. I offered
information on ; terrorist ability to board any airline with weapon of his choice
terrorist missile guidance system (what we know by now)
terrorist ability to use local population to disperse biological weapon and many
more if the FBI willing to give me immunity (protection) and willing to investigate
the Sullivan county NY. family court for there corrupt fraudulent action against me
and my children. After this I also contacted the FBI field office in Newark NJ.
counter terrorist unit and talked to Hank William's (John Allison) told him what
information I have and he promised to send out two of his agents to talk with me.
After a month or so and numerous phone calls to Hank William's finally he did
send them out, on Jun 26 Th. 01. Due to the fact on the same morning I received a
letter from Mr. Baker where he explain to me there is no way the FBI willing to do
anything for me, I was limiting the conservation with the two FBI agents (Andrew
Stengel, Robyn Gritz) about the faulty airport security the ease of smuggling
weapons on board, how to do it and the newest terrorist method of not using the
hostages as bargaining chips but using the airplane as a missile.
The conversation lasted few hours where we talked about drug distributing rings, a
religious leader whom undermining the US. economy, bank involving with money
laundering and many more what I could shed light on it if the agents come back
with a federal judge signed paper saying the FBI will protect me after I shed light
on all this. Since then I never hear from the FBI. Due to my frustration of the FBI
unwillingness to realize the importance whats in stake I resorted to demonstrate on
Aug 2 ND. 01. front of the White House, Justice dept., FBI HQ., and the Capitol
where I talked to Senator Charles Schumer and asked him to use his statue and
connection to bring attention to what IM saying.
I even contacted the media but as we know they interested in juicy stories only.
(Like how Monica drained Clinton excess brain fluid) After 9/11 I contacted the
FBI, CIA. all the government agencies, senators and the media not only to tell them
about the FBI butthead mentality but also warn about the next major terrorist attack
where the casualty will be 10 million plus. IM still being ignored.
After all this I have no choice but to give some serious thought to the rumors where
the accusations; "The government actually invited this terrorist attack in order to
benefit politically, financially and able to establish a military police state like in the
country they support. Where thanks to the American financial, and moral support
the torture, assassinations, bulldozing or in plain English the annihilation of the
Palestinian people is a fifty year old practice under the UBERMENSCH mentality.
After establishing this ultimate power the government able to gain control over the
ever growing black Muslim population whom they see as a treat to there own
existence, by able to make false accusations with out due process thanks to the new
laws they try and will create. Good by freedom and democracy the law professor is
trying to convince the American people on national television the government have
all the right to do so.
The rumors also say the effort to over throw Saddam is nothing more than driving
the Arab states in the open arms of the Chinese, creating the biggest oil crisis in the
history and guess who will benefit from it. Corporate America already showed to
us how much they care about the people, going to thirdworld countries exploiting
there natural resources, enslaving there people with there business practices, while
that country elite stashing millions into there banks. After all this we expect to have
friends? Just look what happened in Pakistan once our friend, we treating them like
a sanitary napkin reaching for them only when we bleeding. Now we giving them a
billion dollars in exchange for friendship, our decision makers should know a
friendship must be earned not bought with money or empty promises because this
newlyfund friendship will last only till the Pakistani uppercrust finish stashing this
money in there Swiss bank acount. We must get read of corporate America dictated
domestic and foreign politic especially politicians whom openly declare them self
foreign agents serving nickel and dime countries best interest while collecting
American people hard earn money as salary (treators) and we must elect a
leadership whom realize educating OUR CHILDREN is the best investment for
our countries future (not importing intellectuals from other part of the world)
because our education system is turned into restaurant business just like our Justice
system, cater only to those whom can afford it. Our government treating our
veterans and elderly as subhuman can't figured out how to get rid of them stead of
holding them high showing them as a example, not only they build America help
preserve our freedom and democracy but some of them give the ultimate for us.
We heard great speeches from politicians...and no children shall left behind...no
they not behind, they right front of us dieying from malnutrition, hunger, with out a
roof over there head right here in America. Families turned to homeless one day to
the next for the benefit of the corporate bottomline and with the government
blessing they allowed to poison our citizens, children's with there antibiotic and
hormones, pharmaceutical products and toxic waste as long as they share there
profit with the political establishment in the form of contributions and this must
stop.
Our intelligence community should be educated, self preservation is not the priority
but safeguarding this nation is and to able to see who should be called Eli Cohen.
Our leadership should recognize by now the war in Afghanistan will achieve
nothing our super intelligent bombs was able to hit every target what was
marked...(with a red cross). The best way to fight terrorism was invented by the
Russians fifty-four years ago and it works looking back in history. Realizing I was
able to steep on many toes my life expectancy is reduced to a bare minimum, but
by speaking out I'm hoping to make a little change the way our government think
and act and make our children future better then I fulfilled my purpose in this
world.
Terrorism is nothing more than a hopelessly cornered man last attempt to be heard
in this deaf world...
Peace is when the heart dictate the terms to the brain....not the brain to the heart
Ignorance and arrogance can be afforded by those whom is in power..or at least
they think so....
Lets get together and wipe out stupidity on earth..it is possible....

Blessing on those whom willing to make a change...

Andras Szekely

If you willing to help me to shed light on this please contact me at ;

what the FBI hiding about 9/11 23.Aug.2002 15:37

andras szekely afemanon@fcc.net

Fellow Americans.
On December 2000 I obtained information on the 9/11 attack. I was debating if I
should report it to the FBI or I just keep silence about it due to the fact the FBI was
endangering my life once before. I reported to the FBI a Chinese spy whom was
very interested in anti submarine warfare and offered to pay for it. A week latter
my life was being treatened over the phone numerous times. The FBI refused to
investigate, I guess that time due to the Clinton and his fellow Democrats the trend
was not to in order not to interfere with the money flow through the Swiss route
from China. Just try to remember the When HO Lee case.
In 2001 January I hoped under the new administration the FBI will change there
mentality and willing to serve the American people best interest and not only those
few whom on the top. On February 9 th.01 in my e-mail to John Ashcroft, not only
complained about the mishandling of the Chinese spy case but on the same time I
offered my help to fight crime and terrorism. It take almost two months for the FBI
to reply. In my letter to Mr. Arthur Radford Baker in the FBI HQ. I offered
information on ; terrorist ability to board any airline with weapon of his choice
terrorist missile guidance system (what we know by now)
terrorist ability to use local population to disperse biological weapon and many
more if the FBI willing to give me immunity (protection) and willing to investigate
the Sullivan county NY. family court for there corrupt fraudulent action against me
and my children. After this I also contacted the FBI field office in Newark NJ.
counter terrorist unit and talked to Hank William's (John Allison) told him what
information I have and he promised to send out two of his agents to talk with me.
After a month or so and numerous phone calls to Hank William's finally he did
send them out, on Jun 26 Th. 01. Due to the fact on the same morning I received a
letter from Mr. Baker where he explain to me there is no way the FBI willing to do
anything for me, I was limiting the conservation with the two FBI agents (Andrew
Stengel, Robyn Gritz) about the faulty airport security the ease of smuggling
weapons on board, how to do it and the newest terrorist method of not using the
hostages as bargaining chips but using the airplane as a missile.
The conversation lasted few hours where we talked about drug distributing rings, a
religious leader whom undermining the US. economy, bank involving with money
laundering and many more what I could shed light on it if the agents come back
with a federal judge signed paper saying the FBI will protect me after I shed light
on all this. Since then I never hear from the FBI. Due to my frustration of the FBI
unwillingness to realize the importance whats in stake I resorted to demonstrate on
Aug 2 ND. 01. front of the White House, Justice dept., FBI HQ., and the Capitol
where I talked to Senator Charles Schumer and asked him to use his statue and
connection to bring attention to what IM saying.
I even contacted the media but as we know they interested in juicy stories only.
(Like how Monica drained Clinton excess brain fluid) After 9/11 I contacted the
FBI, CIA. all the government agencies, senators and the media not only to tell them
about the FBI butthead mentality but also warn about the next major terrorist attack
where the casualty will be 10 million plus. IM still being ignored.
After all this I have no choice but to give some serious thought to the rumors where
the accusations; "The government actually invited this terrorist attack in order to
benefit politically, financially and able to establish a military police state like in the
country they support. Where thanks to the American financial, and moral support
the torture, assassinations, bulldozing or in plain English the annihilation of the
Palestinian people is a fifty year old practice under the UBERMENSCH mentality.
After establishing this ultimate power the government able to gain control over the
ever growing black Muslim population whom they see as a treat to there own
existence, by able to make false accusations with out due process thanks to the new
laws they try and will create. Good by freedom and democracy the law professor is
trying to convince the American people on national television the government have
all the right to do so.
The rumors also say the effort to over throw Saddam is nothing more than driving
the Arab states in the open arms of the Chinese, creating the biggest oil crisis in the
history and guess who will benefit from it. Corporate America already showed to
us how much they care about the people, going to thirdworld countries exploiting
there natural resources, enslaving there people with there business practices, while
that country elite stashing millions into there banks. After all this we expect to have
friends? Just look what happened in Pakistan once our friend, we treating them like
a sanitary napkin reaching for them only when we bleeding. Now we giving them a
billion dollars in exchange for friendship, our decision makers should know a
friendship must be earned not bought with money or empty promises because this
newlyfund friendship will last only till the Pakistani uppercrust finish stashing this
money in there Swiss bank acount. We must get read of corporate America dictated
domestic and foreign politic especially politicians whom openly declare them self
foreign agents serving nickel and dime countries best interest while collecting
American people hard earn money as salary (treators) and we must elect a
leadership whom realize educating OUR CHILDREN is the best investment for
our countries future (not importing intellectuals from other part of the world)
because our education system is turned into restaurant business just like our Justice
system, cater only to those whom can afford it. Our government treating our
veterans and elderly as subhuman can't figured out how to get rid of them stead of
holding them high showing them as a example, not only they build America help
preserve our freedom and democracy but some of them give the ultimate for us.
We heard great speeches from politicians...and no children shall left behind...no
they not behind, they right front of us dieying from malnutrition, hunger, with out a
roof over there head right here in America. Families turned to homeless one day to
the next for the benefit of the corporate bottomline and with the government
blessing they allowed to poison our citizens, children's with there antibiotic and
hormones, pharmaceutical products and toxic waste as long as they share there
profit with the political establishment in the form of contributions and this must
stop.
Our intelligence community should be educated, self preservation is not the priority
but safeguarding this nation is and to able to see who should be called Eli Cohen.
Our leadership should recognize by now the war in Afghanistan will achieve
nothing our super intelligent bombs was able to hit every target what was
marked...(with a red cross). The best way to fight terrorism was invented by the
Russians fifty-four years ago and it works looking back in history. Realizing I was
able to steep on many toes my life expectancy is reduced to a bare minimum, but
by speaking out I'm hoping to make a little change the way our government think
and act and make our children future better then I fulfilled my purpose in this
world.
Terrorism is nothing more than a hopelessly cornered man last attempt to be heard
in this deaf world...
Peace is when the heart dictate the terms to the brain....not the brain to the heart
Ignorance and arrogance can be afforded by those whom is in power..or at least
they think so....
Lets get together and wipe out stupidity on earth..it is possible....

Blessing on those whom willing to make a change...

Andras Szekely

If you willing to help me to shed light on this please contact me at ;

We Hold These Truths 23.Aug.2002 15:53

Brian Cavallo armrcav@mindspring.com

Folks, I wasn't there to observe protestors standing behind the barracades. However, I don't doubt
the veracity of the witnesses in light of the events covered in Claire Wolfe's and Aaron Zelman's
book titled "The State vs. The People". If there is just a shred of truth regarding tyrannical application
of police state tactics employed in Portland, you dear reader had better prepare for this to be the
norm. If it becomes the norm then what?
Most have a familiarity with our Declaration of Independence. I hope that
the following quote is not news: "But when a long train of abuses and
usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to re-
duce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to
throw off such a Government, and to provide new Guards for their future
security".
John Locke (1690), and English writer who influenced our Forefathers,
penned the following: "Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and
destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under
arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people,
who are therefore absolved from any further obediance".
Sadly we are seeing this very warning come to fruition before our eyes.
Yes, and we need not ask questions how the German people stood by
and did nothing during Hitler's reign. If it were possible for this country's
fallen heroes to raise from the dead, they would no doubt ask you and I,
"Why have you betrayed our sacrifices for Freedom? Why have you let
America become another Nazi Germany?"

Sincerely,

Brian Cavallo
RVN '69, USMC

Are you people insane? 23.Aug.2002 16:37

Hawthorn

The police were not roving around in large groups assulting people. They were standing in lines blocking off areas. The people 'assulted' by the police were charging the police line and trying to provoke a police response.

Before you jump on the cops = bad bandwagon, please remember that a baton is 2 feet long and pepper-spray only shoots a few feet. For the majority of the day police were in standard blockade lines.

All the pics and videos on this site which claim to show police assulting protesters, in fact clearly show the protesters less than 3 feet away from police screaming, pushing and shoving. The police are also seen warning people to stay back.

The police need to be able to watch the crowd to make sure people are not getting hurt. They can not do that if you are in their face with a sign and screaming at them. You need to stand back from the line, so the police can see if there is a fight.

There are groups of people who use crowds as a means to cause violence or sexually assult women. When the police crack down on violent crowds (vandalisim, fights, fire setting) they are accused of violating rights. But when a bunch of women get raped or people are beat down during a protest, the police should have been there. You want it both ways.

The real protesters are tired of the small groups of punks stealing the show to protest against the 'police state'. I am sorry, but when you advocate violence as a means to provoke the police into responding, just so you can prove that all police are violent, then you loose your right to complain.

Violent protests are wearing away support from normal Americans. I for one would vote for stiff jail time for violent protesters. I think they are organized thugs who utilize constitutional protests as a way to strike back at a society that has no use for them.

Rubber Bullets 23.Aug.2002 17:42

A US Citizen

Tear gas maybe but rubber bullets. This is not the Middle East this is America . Perhaps they would like to see how it feels when we start shooting back.

Watch the Leaders 23.Aug.2002 18:45

Fred Moore fritzusa1@earthlink.net

I love America. I have made myself familiar with its founding Fathers and its founding documents. I have come to a personal relationship with the God that has blessed America. I believe in civil disobedience carried out in a principled way. As I once heard one say, "I may be ridiculed and scorned, I may have my goods and property confiscated, I may be unlawfully restrained and incarcerated, in the end I may be dead, but I WILL NOT BE A SLAVE." With that said, I appreciate all of the statements and feelings of those who are frustrated at the seeming and actual loss of our God-given rights. But MARK THIS DOWN, if the so-called leadership in our quest to maintain and regain our lost freedoms, is or becomes, a sloppy, arrogant, loudmouthed, filthy talking group of nit-wits, you can put it down. They are not of us and they are not for us. God does not need the Devil to accomplish his work.

http://none
na
South Carolina

REVOLUTION! 23.Aug.2002 20:19

ADAM FREEMAN

The response of the Portland authorties to the demonstrators is a graphic illustration of the truth of my homily: " THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT PROTECT OUR GUNS, OUR GUNS PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION". My ancestors fought the British for far less than what "our" government is doing to us right now!

Is America still "the land of the free and the home of the brave"? Only time will tell. Our children will either curse us or honor us.

Adam FreeMan

No too smart 24.Aug.2002 10:19

Snaggletoothnemisis

Yeah, go ahead and shoot back at the cops you morons, then see what kind of real hell fire gets unleashed back at you.

What a pathetic display of "solidarity" that was on Thursday.

Not even one percent of the population was there (most were working, a novel concept the dope smoking maggots that made up the bulk of the protesters.)

Not to mention, Bush didn't give a squat about anything you said, he heard nothing from inside, the war will still go on, the cops will still do their job and the majority of our citizens here look upon the smelly lot with utter distaste.

So, when you grunge wearing, unbathed, and under educated freaks of nature make it to adulthood and realize that all your energy was wasted, I hope you look back and realize that you made fools of yourselves and gave a good laugh to a lot of people.

Thursday Portland Protest 24.Aug.2002 10:58

Matt yelahttam@hotmail.com

Although I saw police using pepper spray, (and didn't see the cause, as it appeared to be a loud but peaceful protest) I didn't see the police using any rubber bullets. This may be because the crowd was so thick. I was right behind the bulk of the crowd at the intersection in front of Kinko's downtown. The only people that I saw getting aggressive were some of the local older people, who were yelling back at the protesters. One very old man attempted to get physcial with a young female protester, but she did not fight with him. I was shocked at the number of protesters, since I never figured Portland as an activist town!

Activists in Portland protest Bush policies 24.Aug.2002 12:38

Lee Helle lhelle@plixtel.com

Its very plain that those who organized this protest planed on causing a confrontation with the police. This was a planned protest that would have taken weeks to plan, hence any comments President Bush made about logging a few days before
had nothing to do with this protest.

The brains behind this protest can be easily traced to groups in Canada, France and Germany. These groups have been sending paid agitators into the United States for the past five years. Since Sept 11th 2001 these groups have increased
their effort to sow seeds of discontent here in the United States.

The main message of these groups has been the thousands of babies and children that have died in Iraq because of Sanctions imposed by the evil United States. Their secondary messages have included, Sept 11th was the fault of US policy, The C.I.A. was behind the attack, Israel was behind the attack.

Last year the leaders of these groups openly discussed a all expenses paid retreat in Iraq, The purpose was to meet
with various Iraqi officials to discuss different ways they better get Saddam's message to the people.

Was their a retreat? darned if I know as I was discovered and kicked out of their news-letter group. As a finial
gift to these terrorist supporters, I did forward all info to the FBI.

I have watched the videos of Portland's protest and to me anyway it is very clear that the police acted in a very
restrained manner. Reports of babies being gassed might well be true, anyone that would take a child to a protest
should be horse-whipped.

I have no doubt that a lot of well meaning people were duped into supporting this protest, just as I have no doubt not so long ago a fellow named Jones duped a whole bunch of smart people into killing themselves.


Glad im not an American 24.Aug.2002 17:09

John

I have been taking an interest in the on going Bush saga, And with all that is going on in America. If you are reading this you are most likely a person that's interested in what's going on around them, just like me. Reading about ( Chemtrails ) ( Police States ) ( Shadow Government ) I could go on, So what is one to do, Not a lot, As I see it, America is in BIG Trouble as a whole and Its up to you to turn the tide. We in Britain brought our Government to there knees When the Tanker drivers went on strike and the whole of Britain backed them, as I see it almost 100% and remember this is the whole country. I would like to come to America for a visit and see your great sites, But do I want to visit what I believe is turning into a police state, Slowly but surely. No thanks, I kind of find it forbidding. And feel sorry for your situation, which is of course not your fault but your Government. It's really up to you.
I'm on the side of our children, Its up to us to give them a better world and its looking so bleak at the moment for them. I remember the time I was younger and the threat of nuclear war was so close. I was around 10 years old and was so scared. I don't want my children to get into the same situation as I went through. It's a sad world and it really comes down to us to sort it out. The politicians seem oblivious to the cruelty that's so apparent on the planet. Power, greed and self supremacy seems to be the leading goal of most people that are intelligent enough to know how to fool the people, that there way is the best way. You have a brain (use it) Well I will end by saying good luck to the (people) of America, keep up the good fight. God bless America and the World at large.

John
United Kingdom

United Kingdom

FAIR WARNING TO LAW ENFORCEMENT !!! 24.Aug.2002 17:10

Sons of Liberty Militia GuerrillaResistance@HotMail.com

FAIR WARNING TO LAW ENFORCEMENT !!!

IF YOU SNEAK INTO OUR HOMES, WE WILL DEFEND OUR FAMILIES AND HOMES WITH
EXTREME PREJUDICE.

The New (USA Patriot Act)

Section 213 "Sneak-and-Peak"

(Authority for Delaying Notice of the Execution of a Warrant), also
known as the "sneak-and-peak" provision, which effectively allows police
to avoid giving prior warning when searches of personal property are
conducted.
Before the USA PATRIOT Act, the government had to obtain a warrant and
give notice to the person whose property was to be searched. With one
vote by Congress and the sweep of the president's pen, the right of
every American fully to be protected under the Fourth Amendment against
unreasonable searches and seizures was Surrendered !!!


The Lawful Path

 http://land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/vk2k.shtml


9-11 We have been [BushWhacked] Pass it on.

Sometimes the TRUTH is stranger then fiction.

 http://www.defendersoffreedom.org/videos/9-11.ram


 link to web.archive.org

Their will be [NO] World Government !
By consent, or by conquest.


Pass it on if you still have the stones to do so.



Sons of Liberty Militia
Tim Stine
312 S. Wyomissing Ave.
Shillington, Pa. USA 19607
610-775-0497
 SonsofLibertyMilitia@Wheelweb.com

http://www.defendersoffreedom.org/videos/9-11.ram
610-775-0497
312 S. Wyomissing Ave. Shillington, Pa. USA 19607

It's Your Soul, Stupid 24.Aug.2002 17:41

Oilian oilsoakedmedia@yahoo.com

I support protest in all forms. The portland police are a disgrace. evil has the reigns at this time. we are all human. the two sides and all in between. sides. mad republican. your name speaks volumes, yet, you first must understand how both sides are manipulated. we both desire the sane things. life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. the "extreme rich" control these self -evident truths. pit one against the other. it is that simple. I cannot explain it to you easily. the lie has been perpetuated over the billions of lives and thousands of years. an end is in sight. they are weaker than ever.
you do not have to believe this as it is not important who I am. Everyone of you will know the truth someday.
In all of my many years on this planet and of all the people, research, documents and awareness, this book is very much recommended:
Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare. by Michael Hoffman III. It illuminates the crimes and command ideology of the masonic Cryptocracy, where ground zero meets the zero hour in a bestial crucible of ritual murder, human alchemy and demonic invasion. Partial list of contents: Mystical Toponomy. Truth or Consequences. The Queen's Conjurer. Jack the Lodge Brother. Sci-Fi Inevitabilism. Son of Uncle Sam. Wicked King Wicker. The Group Mind. The Double Initial Murders. The Lone Nut. Twilight Language. Trinity Sight. Alchemy of Ritual Murder. The Hunimal. The Golem. Rebuilding the Third Temple. Wired to the Data Hive. The Columbine Matrix. The Ritual Aspects of Criminal Politics and much more.


Impeach the traitor! 24.Aug.2002 17:53

Citizen Bob

The only agenda this president wants to pursue is his family's crime wave.
Neil Bush raided the savings and loans, senior caused the October surprise which delayed getting our hostages back from Iran, etc.

Stand firm people 25.Aug.2002 05:22

peter terry

stand firm people you have the support of many of us downunder.

Educate yourself 25.Aug.2002 10:55

Gregory Romeo GRomeo747@aol.com

READ THE FOLLOWING and GET YOUR EDUCATION UP TO PAR!

The "pendulum" would swing much quicker if the persons affected would take the time to read and study the fundamentals of the power that each of us has.
Knowing the statutory DUTY as well as the PENALTIES that can be imposed on elected officials, judges and lawyers by not adhearing to their OBLIGATIONS, UNDER OATH, we, can indicte as well as charge these officials for criminal misconduct.

Just read the "description" as well as some of the letters of demand, i.e., revised demand on Senator Stratton-Taylor, Douglas Crow as well as the Cert Petition Text that is available on the Truth and Justice Foundation's database.... For those of you that have and more need to drive deeper... Try the interrogetories on "Wanna-Be-Governor" Gary Richardson. YOU will be amazed at what is going on here in littlo ole' Oklahoma.

In the fight for our fredom and restoration of the republic FOR the PEOPLE, BY the PEOPLE, these documents and knowledge, ALWAYS open to the PUBLIC, 24 Hours a day, 7 days a week, NO RESTRICTIONS.....

ENTER YOUR STATE! EDUCATE YOURSELVES!

Article 15, § 1, Oklahoma Constitution, Oath of Office.

All public officers, before entering upon the duties of their offices, shall take and subscribe to the following oath or affirmation:

I, ............ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support, obey, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Oklahoma (Enter your state here)* *

Title 51. OS, Section 2

Every state, county, township, city, town, school district, or other officer under the laws of the state, and every deputy or assistant of any such officer, shall, before entering upon the duties of his office, take and subscribe to the following oath or affirmation:
"I,________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support, obey, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Oklahoma (enter your state), and will discharge the duties of my office with fidelity * * . 1910

Title 5, Oklahoma Statutes, Section 2 - Attorney's Oath

Upon being permitted to practice as attorneys and counselors at law, they shall, in open court, take the following oath: You do solemnly swear that you will support, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Oklahoma; that you will do no falsehood or consent that any be done in court, and if you know of any you will give knowledge thereof to the judges of the court, or some one of them, that it may be reformed; you will not wittingly, willingly or knowingly promote, sue, or procure to be sued, any false or unlawful suit, or give aid or consent to the same; you will delay no man for lucre or malice, but will act in the office of attorney in this court according to your best learning and discretion, with all good fidelity as well to the court as to your client, so help you God. 1910.

Title 22, OS, Section 1181, Removal of Officers

Any officer not subject to impeachment elected or appointed to any state, county, township, city, town, or other office under the laws of the state may, in the manner provided in this article, be removed from office for any of the following causes:\
First. Habitual or willful neglect of duty.
Second. Gross partiality in office.
Third. Oppression in office.
Fourth. Corruption in office.
* * *

Title 21. OS. Section 348 -Willful Neglect by State Officers

Any State Auditor and Inspector, State Treasurer, State Superintendent of Public Instruction, or any other state officer who willfully neglects or refuses to perform the duties of his office, as prescribed by law, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

Title 21. OS Section 580 - Public Officer's Willful Neglect to Perform Duty

A public officer or person holding a public trust or employment upon whom any duty is enjoined by law, who willfully neglects to perform the duty is guilty of a misdemeanor * * . 1910.

Title 22. OS, Section 432 - Accessories and principals in felony.

The distinction between an accessory before the fact and a principal, and between principals in the first and second degree, in cases of felony, is abrogated, and all persons concerned in the commission of a felony, whether they directly commit the act constituting the offense, or aid and abet in its commission, though not present, must be prosecuted, tried and punished as principals, and no additional facts need be alleged in any indictment or information against such an accessory than are required in an indictment or information against his principal. R.L. 1910.

Gregory Romeo

 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheTruthandJusticeFoundation/ More in
the FILES Section, just follow the link, sign up and download, read and understand your responsibilities and rights as a common citizen and the power that each of you actually HAVE.

Educate yourself
Educate yourself

A view from outside 25.Aug.2002 19:03

Justin

Most reasonable (read most) people who live away from that whole Washington State area, are not surprised when we hear that the police had to break up another protest/riot somewhere around there. Whether it's WTO, Loggers, or just Republican politics in general, we can only shake our heads and say, "look at 'em out there getting hosed and gassed again." "They sure seem to be accomplishing a lot." They may think they're shaping national politics, but all they're doing is providing entertaining footage that'll eventually be shown on "real tv." If the rest of us shared your views, we would also be protesting in cities across the nation. As it is, you just give us something to joke about around the water cooler the next day.

View From Outside 25.Aug.2002 20:06

Justin

Most reasonable (read most) people who live away from that whole Washington State area, are not surprised when we hear that the police had to break up another protest/riot somewhere around there. Whether it WTO, Loggers, or just Republican politics in general, we can only shake our heads and say, "look at 'em out there getting hosed and gassed again." "They sure seem to be accomplishing a lot." They may think they're shaping national politics, but all they're doing is providing entertaining footage that'll eventually be shown on "real tv." If the rest of the country shared your views, the same protests would be happening in cities across the nation. As it is, you just give us something to joke about around the water cooler the next day.

Freedom 26.Aug.2002 05:20

Mary marygreeley@valleytel.net

About time people stood up and let Washington heard we will not put up with them stomping on our civil Liberties. Be hot or cold but those that are luke warm God will spit from his mouth. The American citizen is not the emery. But we are treated as if we are. All the corruption must be stopped. Any one who believes our freedoms are worth giving up for security deserve neither. Bush is setting him self as dictator. Let the politician send their sons and daughters to war first not the poor. My children will not die so they can stay rich and avoid prosecution. Why don't they investigate 9-11,k not who let the information out that it could have been avoided. They have a lot to fear and that is the truth. Truth always has a way of getting out.

Outsider opinion 26.Aug.2002 05:34

Nova katastrof@suomi24.fi

About time, I'd say. Congratulations for the bravery of the demonstrators, but also sorry about your loss of civil rights and such. One might say that the "happy childhood" of your nation is over and it's time to start "teen age". Better late than never, but you might still want to hurry things up. You see, US is an empire rising, not a nice one, and such things will come to their end sooner or later, one way or another. Basic choises are: 1) Internal revolution (used by russian people to finish Soviet Union) 2) Intervention by external force(s) (the way Nazi Reich was overthrown). You choose, but common opinion is that internal skirmish, no matter how nasty, tends to be the better way. And the sooner the better. Like I said, the end will come. Tomorrow or next century, but it will come. And the longer it waits, the harder it strikes. If you want to save yourself and your children, continue the Portland path; spread the word, take action. You will first be ignored and mocked, but if you keep on going, you will reach the goal.

Try to be pacifistic, but prepare yourself to bloodshed. Keep these two things apart. No weapons or violence in demonstrations, because the police (and military) have more guns anyway, and any civil casualties no matter how caused, will be turned to be your fault. But violence may also be necessary. It has to be separated from all possible civilian people and places, and aimed only to no-good leaders and their henchmen. Again, all damage and deaths will be your fault. Pure military targets might be the "safest" way. But remember; to be ready to kill, is to be ready to die. Physically and mentally.

A bit more about Oregon 'incident': If police uses gas and rubber bullets before waterhoses, it's overreacting, abuse of rights, unnecessary force and downright violence. Here the police keeps their place in a STONE RAIN, and starts watersports only after few of them are hit "good". Gas and shooting almost never comes to picture. If police acted here like in Portland, they'd been eaten alive, either by crowd, or the media, or both.

Keep it up, but take care. Keep cool head when "they" have upper hand, try to take the PR victory through Gandhi-style "martyrdom". Or if you want to pour your hate upon someone, plan it properly and avoid bystanders at all cost. Keep the guns in darkness, shout the message in daylight.

Europe

to ostrich 26.Aug.2002 12:59

arthur

Ostrich..Please....This is not right..I don't think you are an ostrich...might however be one of those black ski mask types..Ya know M16's everywhere...poor soul

make a rael difference 26.Aug.2002 19:37

O.R.

You can't compare our present situation with past "revolutions",police have never been as powerfull as today not to mention how much violence has become part of this society's upbringing,furthermore never has there been mis-information and brainwashing through mass media on such a wide scale. It's not worth victimizing oursevles with chemical-warfare and police brutality,we need everyone of us alive and breathing,i mean,NOT considered a "terrorist",Let's take to the streets to empower OURSELVES with all the tools we have NOT emphesize on how we can't get closer to the objective(hilton in this case)and how strong the police force is. Don't ever even let them get close enough to you and they'll never have the chance to provoke violence...... These are my proposals: 1: Boykott (or minimize) packaged "foodstuffs".Americans produce 50% of the worlds waste. Unless we change how we deal with our envioroment ,eg.consumerism, we are still supporting the system that's diminishing plant-life and low-impact peoples and cultures and whole animal species at an alarmingly high rate!! 2: Boykott ALL PHARMACEUTICAL DRUGS,they are not only sympto-matic, they severely lower our immune-system funtions and are litteraly desroying us!!! (top of the "profit v.s. people "pyramide) ! 3: Information is power. find out the truth about what's really going on!!! YOU WON'T BELIEVE YOUR EYES!!!! FIND OUT WHAT THE IRS IS TERRIFIED YOU'LL LEARN ABOUT.!!!!!!... support@solgroup.com or www.solgroup.com -- erika.ofek.com and their related web.sites (also most recent additions) POWER TO THE PEOPLE

PepperSpray4Kids?Time2BREAK COPS' LEGS!!! 27.Aug.2002 03:27

Robert-Harley;Meloy eldredkrang@aol.com

NOTHING has been done to TRULY Protect Americans -- (Or Actually ALLOW THEM TO Defend THEMSELVES) But they have ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD (&limitless supply of YOUR wealth) to "crack down" on their BOSSES!!!!!!!!! Why is the Police Mafia not DOUBLY PUNISHED?

Extreme Distress 27.Aug.2002 17:45

Jefferson Fan

http://www.psgpro.com/_borders/upsdFlag.gif *The International Charter of Flag Etiquette states that a flag may be flown upside down in cases of extreme distress. I urge ALL to do so. Demand the repeal of unconstitutional laws. Exercize your 2nd amendment right. Stop being a victim. Stop pretending that the government will PROTECT us. Law enforcement officers are there to serve and protect those who are in office - NOT YOU. The republicans and democrats are two sides of the same coin. You must vote Libertarian if you want liberty in your lifetime. TIPS, USA Patriot Act, Homeland Security, Rubber Bullets, bogus elections, War without a Congressional Declaration... still think we are living in a Free Republic? "No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson "When the government fears the people, there is liberty; When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." --Thomas Jefferson "...The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." --Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356 I am not Advocating armed rebellion, but the right to defend one's self, and one's family from government thugs needs to be stated. Let the government know that we will no longer permit them to infringe on our rights. We will be heard - we PREFER peace, but will not sit still for government abuse any longer.

Extreme Distress
Extreme Distress

to james h regarding heathman 27.Aug.2002 18:00

drone

I think you hit the nail on the head. There was likely to be excessive force by the police anyway, but what really got them riled was when the protestors started heckling the Bush contributors. It's the wealthy who the police are here to "protect", after all...

Solution to unnecessary force, during demonst 31.Aug.2002 10:15

Arthur Alomar aa1988love@juno.com

I have thought extensively about "police tactics" in controlling demonstrators and believe I have come up with a solution, which may save many injuries from their batons and rubber bullets. Why not have each person demonstrating carry our American flag or a flag of their own country. Hopefully the flag will act as a reminder that we (the demonstrators) are not the enemy! And, are also citizens of our country, who believe in peace! Please pass this on to other citizens.

A war for the interest of Israel 04.Sep.2002 17:43

Kat Hak Sung

The coming war on Iraq is for the interest of Israel. It's obvious. Despite of lack of evidence that Iraq has developed mass killing weapons, US is not the target of Iraq. If Iraq has such kind of weapons, most likely the target will be Israel. Iraq has never been a world power which can threaten US. Russia and China are. Then why Bush administration is in a hurry to spend 80 billions to strike Iraq in spite of opposition from allies and friendly Arabic countries? I have to admit it that Israel's influence is too strong here, both in politicians and media.


Bush & those conservatives 23.Jan.2003 22:08

cobalt

Bush & you conservatives who suport him make me sick!

Lucky it was not worse 15.Mar.2003 17:04

Chicago guy

1. If you think Bush is so evi', and the police are bloodthirsty - why would you bring your children and the elderly to a place of danger? ANYONE who brought their children there should have their children taken away. That is the very definition of being an unfit parent.

2. They injured a cop (broke her wrist), and damged property. Hardly the acts of a peacefull rally.

3. I wish I had been there when they blocked the bridge, I could care less what group does it, or what thier reasons are. Could be the peace movement, pro life, or protesting the high taxes placed on q-tips (or something just as insane), if you are blocking the road... Well, lets just say I hope you are willing to die for what you believe in, because I am more than willing to run you down.

4. And how is this main stream? Don't these idiots have jobs to go to?

5. Wow, you mean that there was security for the president of the US? And that the police did not let an angry mob over run the place? Ya, we are just like Nazi Germany.

Know how it should of been settled? Dailey style. When there were riots in chicago he gave the orders to the police to shoot to kill (for looters).

Just a thought 20.Aug.2003 20:51

A UNITED STATES MARINE

I believe in the right to have a peaceful protest. I believe in the right to self expression. I believe that who ever organizes these "peaceful protest" should be held just as accountable for the actions of their people as the chief of police is for his.
During the last protest I watched video taken by media of protesters striking police with rocks, sticks and other objects. Any of these items could seriously do harm to a person. I ask myself is this the act of a peaceful person?
I respect an individuals right to speak their mind. I might not share their opinion. But when a group does not control the people that make it up, it becomes a mob.
If you are out there stay away from the out of control idiots that will endanger not only themselves but you and yours.

PS. I found the actions of those that pasted the names of deceased soldiers and Marines on themselves. And went out and paraded them in public for their own reasons totally out of line. I lost one of my Marines during the conflict. He believed with all his heart that he was doing what needed to be done. IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW THEM DONT INVOLVE THEM IN YOUR ACTIVITIES. THEIR FAMILIES DONT NEED YOUR OPINIONS.

SEMPER FI

A call for all good men, especially our 'boys in blue' 13.Feb.2004 21:44

Patriot and Human Being

There is ample evidence here that at least one police officer pepper sprayed 3 infant children and their parents. Some people have suggested that the officer was acting alone. If that was the case, he should have been seized immediately by the other officers for endangering a minor. That did not happen. If other officers were upset by this behavior then there should have been an internal investigation. That did not happen. Instead we have a closing of the ranks and an 'us versus them' mentality. Wake up, a police officer is still a civilian and an American citizen, unless these unidentifiable cops are not actually Americans, which might be the case. They act an awful lot like members of the Taliban and other fanatical groups that like picking on women and kids. If you want to play soldier, remember that there are such things as 'an immoral order', and 'crimes against humanity'. If you are given an order that violates the laws of this land, You Do Not Have to Obey, and you Should Not obey. As a police officer you swear an oath to uphold the laws of this land. If they are so hard to remember, I recommend you find a copy of the US Constitution. When our forefathers were met with violent British soldiers and hired thugs who fired into their peaceable demonstrations, they reacted as any sane person would- they fought back. The more tyrants try to take our freedom, the more we love it, and the harder we will fight for it. This is the United States of America, scare tactics have already failed here once, and they will fail again. Any time a tyrant has attempted to crush our freedom loving people we have fought back, violently if necessary. We have shown time and time again how willing we are to lay down our lives for liberty. So what about the "us vs them"? This is the simplest argument in the world. Either you uphold the Constitution of the United States, or you are not an American. I have seen people arrested for carrying printed copies of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, I have almost been arrested on the way home from work in these "sidewalk sweeps." So for all the wing nuts, fascists, the bullies, nazis, racists and fundies - here's some news: Some people in this country are still upholders of the US Constitution. Some of us fought against such tactics in memorable wars of the past. Some of us have seen the "I was following orders" excuse come to a swift end at Nuremberg. The next time you try to pick on a baby you may find someone your own size equally willing to defend that baby. Which side are you on boys? p.s. As an aside to our ignorant "black minute man", the constitution guarantees equal rights to all of our citizens; the crime in this county's past is that not all citizens have been treated equally. Your blind racism is the same ignorant hate that pushes these wingnuts to believe their own families are safe, and their own freedom is protected. There are still many good cops, now is the time for them to step forward and prove it.