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Shocked and Horrified

This is worth reading before the country starts a fresh slaughter of innocent people trying to live out their lives in relative peace.
This is the link to the very thoughtful article.

homepage: homepage: http://www.world-action.co.uk/horrified.html

Numbers 07.Aug.2002 04:57

Mahatma Ghandi

Yeh, 8 million people is a lot of murdered people. If one felt pretty guilty about the education and lifestyle afforded by that kind of old-style, pre-Geneva Convention genocide...well...it would just make sense to move somewhere else where human rights are innate; where one's living standards WEREN'T purchased with blood, ummmm...

Where is that place ?

Oh, maybe it would not be the greater part of Asia, where
ONE HUNDERED AND TWENTY MILLION people were murdered by Marxist governments in the 20'th century... or in Europe,
during the great progress of the National SOCIALIST German's WORKER's PARTY in the 30's and 40's....

ooooooh....BUT THAT'S DIFFERENT.

Murder by Capitalist Governments is MORE EVIL then murder by Socialist or Communist Governments, even though the ratio is, (I'm getting out my calculator) , um...

U.S.A.: 8 MILLION

OUR COMMIE "ENEMY": 120 MILLION

WEeeeelllllllll.... fifteen to one ain't bad.

AW, but I'm just jealous I'm not on some weapons resale board, selling nukes to anyone with a check, like our
new "Enemies" in the totally unstable areas of Central Asia.

IF you keep repeating "People are just GOOD" into your fluffy pillow late at night, all of these problems will disappear....Equality will reign supreme...the European banking establishment won't continue to steal from you, as they have done from the 1200's on...the Jews won't continue to be bombed in the streets by Muslim extremists...the media savvy corrupt demagogues won't continue to manipulate your emotions for a vote...

Hey...a wrong act, such as murder is just WRONG. ALWAYS.

Except sometimes...

You're Clueless 07.Aug.2002 06:21

ML

Uh, MG, the Nazis were hardly a socialist organization of any form, except for their misapproriation of the term socialist. You must have a pretty weak background in political science to make such a claim.

duh 07.Aug.2002 09:00

grumby

uh, no i believe that it's rather accurate to term the nazi's as a socialist political institution. for one thing, they were a socialist political institution. for another thing, they called themselves a socialist political institution. i dont' know about anybody else, but that second part seems to be the greater weighted of the two. the US calls itself democratic, and capitolistic, but we're socialist in numerous ways. sometimes the icons we choose to individuate our groups or selves are or become the most noteworthy sites of divergence or distinction. just because the nazi's weren't the pretty picture of Finnish Socialism that we all like to imagine when we hear the term doesn't make them not socialist. and the fact that naziism was fascist changes nothing. fascism as a descriptor exists on a different level than capitolism/socialism/communism. the nazis were fascist socialists with a nearly (and over time increasingly) totalitarian central structure. but they were still socialists.

and don't forget that the main media rag (time magazine) of a post-materialistic nation that was very politically saavy, informed, and activated dubbed Mr. Hilter Man-of-the-Year for what he'd done for Germany's economic crisis.

man, just remember a time when American's actually looked outside their own country at the state of the world once in awhile. i once saw a copy of an early twentieth century 8th grade final exam from a school in kansas that required the students (8th graders) to write a comprehensive essay that presumes one of the major political occurrences of the previous century in Europe had somehow been different or nonexistent, and discuss the impact that difference in history would have on European politics and economics as well as American politics and economics.

how many 8th graders today know what economics is? how many anybody knows that economics isn't the study of money, but rather the study of people?

well put, grumby 08.Aug.2002 01:48

mahatma

Yeah, I was a bit tipsy and read the article, and nothing pisses me off more then the one-sided, myopic non-sequiteurs
presented here most of the time...and just came off kinda sarcarstic. Then (of course) some poorly read kid saw it and started in with the standard B.S....I"m "Clueless" and have a weak background in what they think to be Political Science...

I've always been fascinated with the idea behind the essay you mentioned, especially as far as real world economics and the horrifying history of the NSDAP. I mean, if the Allies had listened to Patton, what would the course of the Cold War have been ? What ABOUT the Nazis...if France and England had not treated the Weimar Republic so barbarically with their post WWI economic sanctions, could they have risen to power so easily ? It never fails to amaze me that they went from economic ruin and a pathetic light calvary to rocket flight in 12 short years, in a truly streamlined, evil, socialist command economy, with the most advanced weaponry, disinformation, and propoganda at that time on the planet.

If the Nazis had not been sabotaged in their own nuclear program, would we be speaking German, if lucky enough to escape becoming a lampshade ?
If Truman had not made the very hard decision to drop the Bomb, would I even exist, as both of my Grandfathers were slated to be in the first wave of an invasion conservatively predicted to claim at a minimum 500,000 American lives ? What about the top Axis brass who went on all those missions to visit the holy men of Tibet, their ally ? Or the role of the Catholic Church in the disappearance of hundreds of war criminals from Europe, and all those blonde-haired, blue eyed German speaking people who are always popping up at CIA-run torture camps in South America ? Or Project Paperclip itself, for that matter ?

OH, man, can you even imagine the essays produced on this topic by government high school SENIORS today ? AY..yi..yi. I'm laughing so I don't cry. But, hey, if it was my job as some evil social engineer for the banking families who run this corrupt old world, that would be the logical first place to start---the systematic dumbing down of the population...right down to the Dictionary level, where even the terms used in "debate" don't even mean what they used to, or much of anything at all...

WW2 and Prescot Bush 08.Aug.2002 08:41

cedd

Mahatma...

This is interesting you should cite WW2 and the weimar republic and the "french treatment" of them ..etc as
the reason for the rise of hitler, given how I.G.Farben andt he ZyklonB gas were financed by american money, and the guns used to kill american soliders on omaha beach and others were made of 'american steel'.

Do a google search on "hariman prescot bush nazi" some day.

Anyway this will all become irrelevant with the upcoming money/energy transition and the opportunity for progressive people to get rid of the elites (hopefully) during the die-off.

oh yeah, THATS a given 08.Aug.2002 16:05

ma hat

Of course...the ulra-elite industrialists who financed the whole mess are rarely metioned in your average "Prole" paper..Prescott Bush making a fortune selling steel to the Axis against the wartime embargo, etc. There is this great doucumentary on the Nuremberg Trials where, after the standard horrific Concentration Camp footage, they get into the sentencing of the Nazis. All the military men get like life in prison, the noose, 50 years, etc., then, almost as a footnote, the bankers are brought out, and get, oh..six months to a year each. And this is presented without a shred of irony...meet the new boss, same as the old boss, you know ?