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There simply is no sound logic for cooperating with grand juries unless you have an unyielding love for the system and a sick single-minded goal of self-preservation.
I feel it is a horrible decision on the part of those recently subpoenaed to the
Portland grand jury to try to keep the situation low profile and secretive. As a
community - not just in Portland but nationally - we have a right to know who
has been subpoenaed and who is cooperating with this grand jury. The grand jury is not just about those subpoeaned, it effects everyone who in some way struggle against the state. One does not win against a grand jury by testifying and giving information or cooperating in any way with the system. This only leads to more people becoming subpoenaed, indictments being handed down and an affirmation of the grand jury system as a whole. No matter how many times this logic is said, I still see people giving into the grand jury system with its attempt to intimidate. The grand jury is used as a political tool to disrupt social and political movements. This occurs by subpoenaing people who then become frightened and refuse to expose the system and resist it. By not talking to others who have been subpoenaed, by not calling public attention to the grand jury, and by not outright resisting the inquisition, those subpoenaed are giving into and cooperating with the state. In my book anyone who cooperates with the state - especially in such a manner - is a major part of the problem.

So a number of people were scheduled to appear and testify last Tuesday in front of a federal grand jury in Portland. What occurred on this day? Did people go in and testify? What exact questions were asked during the proceedings? What were the exact responses? It thoroughly disgusts me that this information has not been made public. As a national community we have a right to know.

The torching of the log trucks last year should be supported by anyone actually
concerned about the threats posed to the natural environment by human greed. It is a shame more of this activity does not occur.

homepage: homepage: http://www.protectcivilliberties.com

the little i know 10.Jun.2002 11:21

someone who knows

3 people were supenaed. one i think is the suspect, one I don't trust, one doesn't know anything. the one that doesn't know anything hasn't testified yet. that person I think will be there next month. I don't know the suspect so don't know what that person said, the one i don't trust i think might even be an agent provacator, so i don't even talk to that person about stuff like this.

All I will say... sorry.

Protectcivilliberties.com - Excellent site! 10.Jun.2002 12:16


There are updates on stories like the Seattle grand jury and on Feb. 12th congressional hearings.

Check it out.


please use correct info 10.Jun.2002 13:18


to 'someone who knows'

your information is both incorrect and inflamatory.

according to the best information i have, 6-7 people have been supeoned, not three.

for you to claim that one person is a suspect, when they have not been publically identified as such, could be providing the police with as much information as someone who testifies before the grand jury itself.

you say you don't trust one of them, and that they may be an agent. at the same time, you are providing this community with bad information. name calling does little to build a movenment. if you have a problem with the way someone is acting, deal with the problem behaviors, don't just resort to name calling.

i agree that talking to grand juries will not do anyone any good. but it also seems that we have not done a sufficent job building a resistance communtity in which people feel supported and empowered enough to resist the threats that the state has for us.

Moving the Movement Backwards 11.Jun.2002 06:12

Silent Sam

Must say I am both shocked and disappointed in Cascade Forest Alliance if this story is accurate. Have they not been paying attention to what has happened in Portland for the past several years involving the (not so) grand juries? Have they learned nothing from the times Craig Rosebraugh and Josh Harper were offered up as sacrifical lambs to appear before the grand juries? And what did these two dedicated young activists do? They kept their mouths shut and offered up no information or individuals. If anyone in CFA cooperates with this sham of "justice" than they will be responsible for setting back the movement 20 years. Have they not a clue that perhaps it is not themselves who the feds want information about but perhaps one of their trusted friends. Offering any information at these proceedings is a clear indication that such an individual is not to be trusted in the future. Perhaps they need to contact Craig or Josh and get their priorities straight or get the hell out of the movement. My advice to anyone who is put in such a position is SHUT THE FUCK UP! Grand juries can only exist if individuals are willing to cooperate with them.

Wasn't me! 11.Jun.2002 18:02

Nihil Allahntin ysab@efn.org

I didn't do it. I don't know who did it. And if you think I do, well, "the truth is out there!"


Wasn't me! 11.Jun.2002 18:09

Nihil Allahntin ysab@efn.org

I didn't do it. I don't know who did it. And if you think I do, well, "the truth is out there!"


The Grand Jury 11.Jun.2002 22:22

a CFA person

You're all getting a little too inflamatory about this whole affair.

First of all, no one "is" CFA. folk may work to defend the forests under the aegis of CFA but that doesn't make us CFA employees. People act on their own accord.

Secondly, someone CAN cooperate with a Grand Jury without "setting the movement back 20 years". In this case, the investigation of a bombing, no one had any info about that action in particular and therefore could tell the jurors about what they DID know: the devastation of the Mt. Hood National Forest. It was a great promo vehicle. Cooperating with the system allowed these people to both keep their freedom and express their views.

Thirdly, Mr. Rosebaugh is free to express his opinion about the bombing until he's blue in the face, but most CFA people actually do condemn it, and with good reason. Why can't people be pro environment but anti- exploding vehicles?

Lastly, the Grand Jury can actually be used for some good. Imagine a factory dumping toxic waste into the backyards of people who have no money and therefore no way to fight the company's extensive legal resources. A Grand Jury can intervene in this case, and the people who own the company and pollute the environment won't be able to hide behind their lawyers' statments.

This is not to say that everyone in CFA supports the legal system as it stands, but until YOU are in the same position, until you stand before a grand jury and have your freedom threatened you can say whatever you'd like about who is being a "traitor to the cause." And, like it or not, Rosebaugh was able to saucily defy Congress and the Grand Jury all he wanted, and the death squads haven't come after him yet. We can use this system to our benefit and we're damn lucky because of it.

another comment 11.Jun.2002 23:09

another cfa volunteer

So I feel like I keep seeing stuff flying back and forth about CFA and the grand jury on this website and for awhile no one even contacted "CFA" FIRST: Talk to people who are involved with CFA instead of just relying on anonymous posts that seem to me inaccurate and aimed at causing some big rift between CFA and a lot of the causes and people we stand in soldiarity with.

SECONDLY: Everyone keeps talking as if CFA as a collective group had some big secret meeting and made a group decision as to how to best handle the grand jury. Not all the folks summoned are even currently involved in the group. Not all the folks in CFA even knew a grand jury was being called. Again, an assumption about "CFA" as an entity without checking in with folks you might associate with the group or hell - even calling the office or sending an email.

THIRD: the above post bothers me. I don't know who wrote it. But it bothers me that someone would think they could say what most people in CFA think about exploding vechicles. Many like myself keep their opinions about exploding vechicles to themselves, believing that all the hype about whether or not people "condemn or condone" is really just a way of drawing attention away from the real issues and causing division in the movement.

Like I said before -- it really bothers me to find out that folks have been talking about what "CFA" (as if it was a group not random folks who may or may not be more or less affiliated) said to the grand jury without really talking to people to find out what really happened. Did anyone even bother to call the CFA office and let folks know about the first post and the tuesday meeting? When I checked with the office, the folks there at the time were unaware about the posts and conversation. With activist oppression stepping up, and with issues folks might feel differently on, we have to remember to treat each other with basic trust and respect. To deal with attempts to exploit our divisions, we have to talk to each other -- not just assume the worst is true. Or assume that if folks aren't responding to a post it is because they are choosing not to, not because they didn't see it.

So Tell Us 12.Jun.2002 06:13

Silent Sam

Okay so now is your chance to explain to everyone what is happening with the grand juries,the subpoenas and the people being called in to offer information.The grand jury works behind closed doors and in secrecy but that does not mean the rest of us should follow suit.I believe one of the reasons Craig Rosebraugh has always walked away from the grand juries without ever being charged was because of the publicity he received and the supporters who waited outside the courthouse for him.Am just saying it would have been nice if we had known about the subpoenas and the court dates so that those who wanted to could show their support for these individuals and their disdain for the grand jury system.So please take this opportunity to enlighten those of us who have no direct knowledge of what is going on and tell us what we can do to offer support.

Answer the questions 12.Jun.2002 09:52

Craig Rosebraugh anon@tao.ca

And the questions remain unanswered...

So a number of people were scheduled to appear and testify last Tuesday in front of a federal grand jury in Portland. What occurred on this day? Did people go in and testify? What exact questions were asked during the proceedings? What were the exact responses? It thoroughly disgusts me that this information has not been made public. As a national community we have a right to know.

A "CFA person" writes that people are "getting a little too inflamatory about this whole affair." Actually this is a very serious situation, with implications reaching far beyond those who were subpoeaned - whoever they were. There should be anger, anger at those individuals for keeping and continuing to keep the grand jury information behind closed doors and away from the public consciousness. There should also be fierce anger against those who actually went in and testified, voluntarily offering information in secrecy to this grand jury.

A "CFA person" continues, "someone CAN cooperate with a grand jury without setting the movement back 20 years... they could tell the jurors what they did know...the devastation of the Mt. Hood National Forests... it was a great promo vehicle." Grand juries are not fucking promo vehicles. To even suggest that it is in any way legitimate for one to enter into the proceeding and attempt to spill their guts about the evils in the world demonstrates a substantial misunderstanding of the grand jury system and its history in the United States. The grand jurors on no occasion have the ability to be interested or effected by the passionate and ideological information supplied by a witness. This is due to the fact that the grand jury members are heavily influenced by agents of the federal government normally before each witness enters the room. By the time the witness enters, the grand juror has, for all intensive purposes, lost the ability to view the witness with an unbiased perspective. The most common grand juror analysis is that if an individual is called to be a witness, they must be guilty of something or somehow involved. To think you will have the ability to educate or to influence the opinions of these hand picked grand juries is ignorant.

Willingly supplying information to the grand jury DOES set the movement back. When a witness begins to answer any questions, that instantly leads to a visible weakness which is exploited with further questioning. Additionally, just because a witness feels the information he/she is supplying could never harm anyone, or get anyone in trouble, any information supplied is used to assist is obtaining more subpoenas and eventual indictments. Furthermore, as I previously stated in my first post, the volunteering of information to the grand jury is a validation of the entire grand jury system. Cooperating witnesses are what keep the grand jury system functioning in this country. I was left speechless at your suggestion that "the grand jury can be used for something good." Grand juries are one of the most outright oppressive tools of the state which are constantly effective in annihilating social and political movements because people cooperate with them. There is no excuse for cooperating with grand juries. They need to be abolished.

"Cooperating with the system," the "CFA person" writes, "allowed these people to both keep their freedom and express their views." These people - again whoever they were - were not forced to come to the grand jury to educate the jurors on the threats to the Mt. Hood National Forest. They were commanded to supply needed information to the grand jury investigation and to determine whether or not they would be considered cooperating witnesses to the federal government. Often times once an individual is labeled a cooperating witness by the government they are repeatedly called back to supply more information. The only thing cooperating with this grand jury accomplished is self preservation of the cooperating witnesses at the expense of national political and social movements.

"Most CFA people actually do condemn it with good reason," the "CFA person" coninues speaking of the heroic torching of the logging trucks. "Why can't people be pro-environment but anti-exploding vehicles?" The threats to the environment are so severe at this point - which an overwhelming amount of evidence from even mainstream sources suggests (see the EU organization 30 year global environmental analysisand projection) - that everyone should be supporting every tool in the toolbox to stop the destruction of life by human greed and selfishness. To publicly condemn the destruction of property that is used to annihilate life on the planet is to demonstrate only some sick liberal privilege and pure ignorance.

The "CFA person" finished by stating,"Like it or not Rosebraugh was able to saucily (whatever the fuck that refers to) defy Congress and the grand jury all he wanted, and death squads haven't come for him yet. We can use this system for our own benefit and we're damn lucky because of it." This last sentence gives me great insight into the mentality of this person. It demonstrates a misguided and unfortunate belief in the legal and political system in the United States, which is directly responsible for allowing and engaging in global murder and destruction. The idea of reform, on any level, inside this system of governing is only affirming its existence and thus supporting murder. The single issue phenomenon "I am a forest activist...I am an animal rights activist...I am a women's right's activist...etc." has not ever produced the necessary results within the United States to stop the overall exploitation and destruction of all life. All it has done is to create divisions, further separating and diminishing any resistance toward the state. The only thing we should feel lucky about is having the ability to organize to overthrow the political system in this country. This privilege needs to be taken as a responsibility, an obligation to do everything possible to stop the most destructive force in planetary history - the U.S. government.

The only reason I have yet to be held in contempt for either the grand juries or the Congressional bullshit is public pressure. Public pressure is the only way that grand juries can be effectively opposed. That is why it is crucial to organize the community both locally and nationally anytime anyone is subpoenaed to a political grand jury. I certainly am not free because the system is just.

The next post by "another CFA volunteer" begins by stating that "no one even contacted CFA...talk to the people involved with CFA." I did personally meet with one of the people subpoenaed and have been unsuccessfully attempting to obtain more information since that time.

The message continues, "to deal with attempts to exploit our divisions, we have to talk to each other - not just assume the worst is true. Or assume that if folks are not responding to a post it is because they are choosing not to, not because they didn't see it." By not involving the community in a situation that is targeting that community divisions are created. By not informing the community about the grand jury, who was subpoenaed, who testified, what each witness was asked and said, that is creating divisions and playing directly into the hands of the grand jury system itself. As the grand juries are secret proceedings closed to the public, if people are not talking about it all the public can do is assume the worst. Otherwise, what realistic motive would there be for not sharing the information publicly?

Once again, this grand jury situation is not just about the individuals who received subpoenas. It is a purely selfish act to assume this and to act under this assumption. The community on both a local and national level has the right to know the answers to the above questions.

THANKS CRAIG 12.Jun.2002 11:04


the voice of experience and truth has spoken.i only hope for all concerned that he was heard.thanks craig!

Craig is right 12.Jun.2002 11:06

Gumby Cascadia gumbycascadia@yahoo.com

When the Grand Jury subpoenas got handed down in Eugene last year, two testified and one refused. The person who refused was sent home -- end of story. The other two tesitified. Didn't come out after each question to tell supporters what was asked. Didn't write down each question. It was only after pressure from the community that one of them finally 'tried to remember' what was asked and made it known to the rest of us. She seemed to remember most of the questions but was somewhat vague about what her responses were. This has created an air of mistrust and suspicion, and she was a willing pawn in the divide and conquer game. (I never heard anything from the other person who testified.)

Until we ALL refuse to testify at Grand Juries, they will continue to subpoena us. If there is unity around refusal to testify, they will eventually give it up. The law says that a person cannot be jailed punatively (as punishment) for refusing to testify. They can only be jailed COERCIVELY...to be forced to testify. Legally, when a person makes it clear they will not be swayed into testifying, they must be released. (This may require going before a judge and proving you are being held punatively.)

The cat's out of the bag. As a member of this community, I demand to know who was subpoenaed, what questions were asked, and what answers were given. It is EVERYONE'S business.

some thoughts- 12.Jun.2002 17:22


The grand jury system is flawed,unfair,and obsolete. It should not be cooperated with,this goes without saying.
I respect Craig's wisdom since I know he has dealt with alot of repression. But concerning your comments about how the arson near the Eagle Creek sale should be supported by everyone,all I'm saying is RESPECT others opinions about the value of that action. Some people don't feel it was a good move for someone to do something of this nature so close to a direct action campaign. If someone feels this way,I would not marginalize them, just as I won't marginalize you for feeling it was great. I read on the newswire today a timber sale in the Umpqua National was cancelled due to citizen letters and comments.I know this does not always turn out this way. But it worked this time. I also know very few timber sales have been cancelled by tree-spiking. I'd like to see your statistics you speak of.

YOU'RE WORSE THAN THE PIGS!! 13.Jun.2002 16:41

Leslie James Pickering

and you still haven't answered the questions!!!!
you people, and the warped candy-ass mentality that you represent, are the reason that liberation hasn't been won by now. what do you think, this is a game that you can just back out of as soon as the chips aren't in your favor. fucking typical liberal bullshit. it's bad enough when you get your panties in a bundle over some uncomfortable associations the media may make between you and the people actually fighting for liberation (those responsible for the truck arson). this should be unquestionable proof to everyone what side you're really on. when you walk into that grand jury room and cooperate you walk out a fucking pig. no, worse.